Posted by Helen on: 05.31.2006 /
This is from the back cover and front flap of Wild At Heart by John Eldredge (a popular Christian book for men):
Every man was once a boy. And every little boy has dreams, big dreams: dreams of being the hero, of beating the bad guys, of doing daring feats and rescuing the damsel in distress. Every little girl has dreams, too: of being rescued by her prince and swept up into a great adventure, knowing that she is the beauty.
But what happens to those dreams when we grow up? Walk into most churches, have a look around and ask yourself: What is a Christian man? Without listening to what is said, look at what you find there. Most Christian men are…bored.
Deep in his heart, every man longs for a battle to fight, an adventure to live, and a beauty to rescue.
John and his wife Stasi have written a companion Christian book for women called Captivating. They run seminars for women based on it. This is from the description of the Captivating Seminar on their website:
Walk into any church in America, take a look around, and ask yourself this question, “What is a godly woman?” Don’t listen to what is said, listen to the lives of the women present. What do we learn? A godly woman is . . . tired. For all she has been told to be is a good servant. Hasn’t that been the church’s message to women: “You are here to serve?”
And what about her heart?
Set deep in the heart of every woman are three core desires. Every woman longs for Romance, to play an irreplaceable role in a great adventure, and to be the Beauty in the tale.
Although these are books written for Christians, the descriptions above refer to every man and woman. So, feel free to comment on the following questions below whether you’re a Christian or not:
Comment by: Julie Marie
1 05/31/06 12:04 PM | Comment Link |Ha! I tried that once. Wound up living in a protective bubble. Got ejected from the bubble for not being the damsel in distress anymore. Had a rough landing.
Got up without intentions of ever being rescued again. Married a man who was so much fun I melted inside. A man who didn’t flinch when he saw my occasionally the less than princess level behavior. Having a ball now…and here’s the ironic twist: while he was out of town he went and got a big knight in shining armor tattooed on his back inscribed under with : Freedom isn’t Free. So I still got my knight, but I don’t have to be a damsel. I can be who I am. Which is sometimes damsel-ish and sometimes vixen-ish and sometimes warrior-ish. and other things. He manages to cope well with the multifaceted woman he married.
Good grief. Okay, I already shared that I’m edgy today. Soo….these may be parts of every humans hearts desire. But maybe not. I think the best route to self improvement is to figure out for yourself what stuff you are made of. Don’t try to fit yourself into someone’s idea of who you should be. And especially don’t fall for a one dimensional caricature of womanhood or manhood!
Comment by: Helen M.
2 05/31/06 12:46 PM | Comment Link |Thanks Julie Marie. Good thoughts. I’m so glad your Warrior isn’t forcing you to fit any particular Princess profile.
Hey, if you’re edgy, Conversation at the Edge is the place to be! (As long as you’re not pushing other people over the edge!)
Comment by: Tom in Sacramento
3 05/31/06 2:32 PM | Comment Link |Saw the movie, read the book, did a small group discussion …. and I still think it’s a crock. At the risk of long-distance psychoanalyzing John Eldridge, the book seemed to me like the writings of an insecure guy who feels better about himself if he can get everyone else to feel insecure, too.
As far as the stereotypes the question suggest, I just think they’re silly.
Comment by: NCxian
4 05/31/06 3:27 PM | Comment Link |Ditto, ditto, ditto.
I used to be just “whatever” about this kind of thing, but now I am the parent of a boy and a girl. It is something I have gotten more militant about. A person is a person. A stereotype, even it is sounds positive, is bound to be hurtful in the long run.
Comment by: Steve
5 05/31/06 3:36 PM | Comment Link |I read this book a while ago, so I don’t remember all the details and content. I think that many people, not just men, want to have adventure and challenge in their lives. Of course, there are many men and women who prefer stable routine, and lots and lots of us somewhere in the middle.
As for rescuing the damsal in distress, that’s fairly bothersome to me. I want a woman to be an equal and a partner, not someone who needs to be rescued. I rescued a woman once, from an abusive home. Turns out she was more interested in getting out than in me, and our marriage fell apart within months.
Comment by: Karen
6 05/31/06 4:01 PM | Comment Link |LOL! I couldn’t have said it better, Julie.
Are we never going to get over this silly, insulting stereotyping? I dunno, but it seems to me like this is one of those “high concept” ideas that’s very effective at drawing people in to read the book(s), attend the seminars, buy the related products, and $$$$$.
Comment by: jim
7 05/31/06 4:33 PM | Comment Link |Hey nice to see all of you over here - Thanks for making the trip -
Comment by: mw
8 05/31/06 5:45 PM | Comment Link |I strongly agree with the “good griefs” and the comments that this kind of stereotyping is insulting to everyone.
On the other hand! I love the movie “Pretty Woman” (Julia Roberts, Richard Gere), which besides depicting the thrill of no holds barred shopping on Rodeo Drive (not), is also explicitly a fairy tale about a beautiful prostitute who wants nothing less than to be rescued by a rich man
In that movie, though, when he asks her what happens then, after he rescues her, she replies, “She rescues him right back.” That little twist gives hope of the kind of reciprocity and respectful recognition of each other’s wounds and scars that seems to me a healthier place to be than in a relationship where one person is wounded, hapless or incompetent, and the other is capable, powerful, and heroic. Doesn’t the whole idea of rescuers and victim in relationships smack of dysfunctional, alcoholic family dynamics?
Of course, I haven’t read the book, so perhaps there’s more to it.
Comment by: Peter Walker
9 05/31/06 6:31 PM | Comment Link |I have mixed feelings about this whole premise, because, postmodern though we may be, I am continually amazed at how “old fashioned” so many people still are. Christian AND non-Christian. So whether it’s right or not, it’s certainly understandable for a book like this to resonate with people.
On the other hand, I definitely agree with NCxian above - even positive stereotypes can be dangerous.
Do I want adventure? Yes, but my less-than-macho tendencies have never given me the desire to wage wars or kill deer or run down an offensive lineman (if you knew me, you’d be impressed I know a football position!). My adventure-spirit shows up in wanting to challenge and push people intellectually and spiritually. It’s a nerdy kind of adventure.
And as far as the damsel to save? Forgive me ladies, but I’ve dated damsels in distress, and unless they’re in some really exciting distress, I never found them very interesting. My wife is exciting and attractive to me because she is my equal - we save each other, I suppose.
I think for a certain demographic, particularly my father’s generation, “Wild At Heart” was a nice, stretching read. I even bought a copy for my father-in-law. But that’s because I can never except these two men to jump into “A New Kind of Christian” and find excitement in throwing out old paradigms.
What is a healthy stretch for some may be a lazy yawn for another…
Comment by: Helen M.
10 05/31/06 7:50 PM | Comment Link |I suppose the one thing the Eldredges attribute to both genders is wanting to be in some great adventure. I don’t know whether ‘adventure’ is exactly the right word for what I want. I would say I’d like to be involved in something that is meaningful and isn’t just about me.
Not all Evangelical Christian books about men and women are as extreme as the Eldredges’ books. Nevertheless, when I read what women are supposed to be like in any Evangelical Christian book I generally end up feeling that I must be some undiscovered third gender which happens to look just like women.
I doubt my husband sees himself as a Warrior type (unless writing papers about statistical modelling counts as some sort of ‘warfare against ignorance’ ;)) - so maybe it’s ok if I’m not a Princess!
Comment by: jim
11 05/31/06 11:43 PM | Comment Link |Helen
Great explainer/invite for CATE
Comment by: Helen M.
12 06/1/06 4:05 AM | Comment Link |thanks Jim.
Comment by: Bob
13 06/1/06 4:47 AM | Comment Link |I agree with his diagnosis:
But his cure has to be understood.
IMO, men are constantly confronted with the need to be significant, to make a difference in the world, to do something great. So we chase after things. But I think the things that make us great don’t need to be pursued, they just need to be noticed. People who become great (I mean truly great, not just rich and powerful) didn’t set out with greatness as a goal. They pursued their passion (which Eldridge calls an adventure) and became great in the process.
Unfortunately, most of the examples in his books (and other similar teachings like Robert Lewis’ Men’s Fraternity) encourage men to pursue adventure for adventure’s sake in the form of thrills. Take manly hikes in the mountains, go cliff-jumping, coach an all-state football team, etc.
He likes to quote Irenaeus’ “The Glory of God is a man fully alive”. But fully alive isn’t being a big warrior-adventurer who gets the girl. Being fully alive is being so in tune with the lives around you and in you that every part of every day is adventure.
Comment by: Helen M.
14 06/1/06 4:54 AM | Comment Link |Bob I really like your careful, thoughtful analysis of Eldredge’s teaching about men.
Comment by: mw
15 06/1/06 7:48 AM | Comment Link |Helen wrote:
My response is that perhaps we could become more aware, in every moment, of the adventure we are already on just being alive … it’s a life and death struggle! :-)
Comment by: Helen M.
16 06/1/06 8:49 AM | Comment Link |LOL mw! :)
Comment by: Julie Marie
17 06/1/06 9:01 AM | Comment Link |Indeed! I remember back when I lived in the Princess Protector Bubble feeling sad and knowing, somehow, my life was ticking away and this wasn’t a dress rehearsal. I had traded in my authenticity for security; I wasn’t really living my own adventure. Living someone else’s adventure (like most military spouses must do) often leads to bitterness. Being “Beauty” isn’t all its cracked up to be.
NCxian - AMEN!!!! stereotypes are insidiously harmful, no matter how prettily they are packaged.
Comment by: Doreen
18 06/1/06 2:41 PM | Comment Link |Can’t say I ever did want either! I think I’m beautiful now and I’ve always been a better rescuer than rescuee, thank goodness lots of therapy got me out of that mode!
Not really. Seems to me it’s dangerous to project one’s own longings onto another individual. I think wanting to rescue or be rescued can be a desire of men or women.
Most peeps just want to be recognized/acknowledged/valued. (BTW, the same for most employees; employees rarely quit over just money.)
doreen
Comment by: NCxian
19 06/1/06 6:56 PM | Comment Link |I want to be Mulan. She gets to be the rescuer, be part of a great adventure, and be beautiful all at the same time (in a Disneyesque kind of way).
Somebody is occasionally thinking through this kind of gender stereotyping stuff for modern children’s fairy tales. For which I am thankful.
Comment by: Julie Marie
20 06/2/06 6:08 AM | Comment Link |I’ve begun to notice that too, now that my son’s attention span is long enough for story after story after story…;)
I asked my husband what he thought about the wild at heart premis last night - he didn’t have much patience for either idea - I got a grunt and a “people have problems if they need to tell others what to want” And he is as uninspired with the rescuing a damsel as the posters here seem to be. He was shocked when I told him the book was for sale in our church bookstore.
I think maybe it was a book meant for a previous generation.
Comment by: Pam Hogeweide
21 06/2/06 11:10 AM | Comment Link |Hell no.
I think the deeper desire that Eldredge is alluding to is the human desire for significance and belonging. I don’t look, act, talk or smell like a princess but I do crave meaning and worth.
Eldredge and his wife have hit a trigger in our Christian culture in that there is an identity crisis, we don’t know who we are. When we embrace and live out of the reality of who God created us to be we won’t need books and seminars on wild hearts and captivated beauties.
The message of his books are debatable, but I think the man is a skillful and talented writer. I love his use of his language.
Comment by: Paul
22 08/7/06 1:04 AM | Comment Link |A few observations from having read the book and some of the posts above…
we’re a postmodern generation and we hate being labelled - a lot of people are gonna hate being labelled a “postmodern gen.”
we’ve been brought up to think in terms of equality, acceptance, no real gender divide anymore - this is a good thing in many ways and a confusing thing in many ways as well - roles are blurred, people say what is expected and feel something else inside and others genuinely believe it.
of course no one can shoe horn 3 billion of each gender into a book and of course there are going to be exceptions (in millions) but having been married for 9 yrs and doing a lot of work with marrieds/couples/singles of both sexes doesn’t it strike you that there are some genderish differences. Like check out the whole chick lit phenom - go to a book store and look at gal summer reads (oh trashy as hell but could fun right) and then look at books recomended for bloke summer reads… check out the audience analysis for types of films is there a reason why rom/coms are referred to as chick flicks? Snakes on a plane anyone - how many fans on the net for this film are male? How many men do you think will be in the audience? Think about just good ol fashioned communication… take the phrase “I have nothing to wear” when I say it I mean all my clothes are in the wash, when my wife says its she means that she needs a new outfit…
Now back to the book - literally it does not mean that men dress up as knights and women start growing their hair and hanging around in tower penthous apartments waiting to be rescued - c’mon right that’s just patronising sexist bigot talk right…right? I confess I love the thrill of the chase, the adventure of doing something new that scares the pants off me, of triumphing over and mastering something - even if its as boring on the outside as a new deal for staples supplies at work.
With my wife the hardest thing is not to get complacent, there is so many opportunities to chase after someone else, and when the flirting starts there is a rush - i admit i want to win with women on the other hand that is also a massive battle within me - loving my wife how she wants to be loved which is different to me (check out Gary Chapman’s book on 5 love languages) - it is one of the things that is the most worthwhile adventure of my life - learning that as Paul puts it in ephesians “love is about giving not getting” learning to lay down my rights, is like the hardest thang I do and often fight like hell not to do…
But here’s the rub - i found the book helpful, i didn’t take it literally but for me that church can be so dull and boring (c’mon where’s the excitement in singing and praying really???) , why the most significant battles in my life, the most significant adventures are often the most honest, revealing, exciting encounters where I get to be me, not some stereotyped version of who I think I should be.
Its quite ok to think that the whole wild at heart thang is just surpressed macho bullshit or some throw backs to 50’s (18 or 19 you choose). On the other hand I know a lot of people who the book has helped a lot, who think ok this gives me a reference to help me live life - you don’t get to be a best seller from people reading the backs of books, thinking crap and walking away :)
Comment by: Helen M.
23 08/7/06 2:13 AM | Comment Link |Paul, wow, thanks for taking time to explain how/why Wild at Heart has been helpful to you. I really appreciate it!
I posted your comments as a new blog entry:
Paul defends Wild at Heart
I’ll post my own responses to you there.