my first husband heard Carl Sagan speak at the Air Force Academy. He was really upset about the speech, told me he didn’t like Sagan but would never say why. Now I suspect atheism was the reason. It must’ve come up.
I have noticed that as I’ve told my friends about this blog, they get uncomfortable. I guess maybe I don’t realize how far down the bench I’ve slid. (slidden? sled? slown? slided? where is my grammar teacher now? hopefully not reading this sentance!)
A few years ago I read Carl Sagan’s The Demon Haunted World (after seeing it recommended by a number of atheists) and I really liked it. It’s about the scientific method. I didn’t find him to be unnecessarily disrespectful about religion like I find some other atheist authors.
I guess maybe I don’t realize how far down the bench I’ve slid.
Also - maybe you never were sitting quite as close to each other as you thought.
The video got me thinking (right now I am packing so the mind can wander). IT seems that among the great minds of the world, past an present there is not consensus about a higher being. The video showed many brilliant atheists, but there are people like Jimmy Carter (Baptist) or Albert Einstein (Jewish), the Dali Lama, the list could go on for a long time. It is a rather humbling (but positive) remider that my beliefs are my own and I value them but they are not ‘better’ than anyone elses.
i really liked the sound track of the video, and the mtv’ish way of collaging images together. it kept my attention, even if i only am a dumb, monotheistic, undereducated working class white woman.
it was interesting to me that the producer of the video did not include any people of color or third world nationality.
are the atheists of the world only white europeans or americans? and predominantly male?
of course not, but apparently only the white male atheists are cool enough with their accomplishments afforded to them by great education and opportunity to make the A list of the video. (there were a few women, mostly actresses and the brilliant marie curie)
i guess all i can say is that i’d rather be a fool that believes in God and discover I’m deceived than be a genuis (or an actor) who finds out that God is real. I’m ok with being a fool.
thanks for video friday, helen. have a great weekend!
Pam, did you interpret the video as saying Christians are dumb? I didn’t find that in there. I only saw a defense of atheists against the accusation that their lack of belief in God proves them all to be ‘fools’.
thanks for video friday, helen. have a great weekend!
To me, if it does nothing else, it lets people know that lots of admirable people who’ve made contributions to society are atheists. Seeing someone like Lance Armstrong (whom I didn’t know was an atheist) or Jodie Foster (whom I did know about) gives the viewer a positive role model to associate with atheism - which counters the negative stuff, both from the bible and from the public opinion surveys cited at the beginning.
I did notice the focus on white (mostly) males, and I see that often, sadly. There are fewer women in skeptics and atheists circles. As for race, I’m not sure whether it’s a bias on the part of the filmmaker, or whether there just aren’t that many people of color who have “come out” as atheists. Strictly speaking, Buddhism is not a theistic religion, but I don’t know that Buddhists would identify as atheists.
Anyway, it’s great to see something positive is out there. I hope it gets wide circulation, and that it encourages other atheists to come out of the closet. :-)
Well that was thought-provoking. But you can take a lot of the Bible out of context and use it to try and prove all kinds of points.
Several of those listed as atheist are listed (and quoted) elsewhere as agnostic. Christopher Reeve was a UU. I’ve heard Lance Armstrong say he is spiritual but not religious. If you are spiritual but don’t believe in a deity, are you still atheist?
I couldn’t help but notice the relatively high percentage of L/G/B people in the supposed atheist category. (I say supposed because I’ve never met any of these people and asked them what they believe.)
One can be brilliant intellectually and still be a fool.
From the atheist perspective, what’s the point of this film?
Doreen,
I don’t have to prove the bible is anything. I’m content as an atheist that’s all. I call myself agnostic atheist. I am UU also. I don’t consider myself spiritual but I go to UU church, I’m still an atheist. Lance Armstrong is still an atheist I bet. Atheist, it’s not believiing in any gods. All Buddhists are spiritual not theists. You can probably write Seth Green a letter or visit http://www.celebatheists.com
and read up. If you go to UU church you may meet some Gay people who believe in god or my not believe. I guarantee there are other atheists who are gay and heterosexual also like me in most UU churches.
The point is people don’t necessarily believe in god.
From the atheist perspective, what’s the point of this film?
To counter the common belief among religious people that atheists are immoral, confused, non-contributors to society. Atheists are consistently voted as the “least-trusted” minority in America. Showing that people we trust and admire are atheists is positive.
Bringing the concept of atheism out of the closet, where it’s resided since forever, is always helpful in terms of wider acceptance of atheists and atheism.
I guess I find it ironic that people who don’t believe in God are using the Bible (i.e., the word of God) to try and prove a point. (I’m not saying that of anyone here but of the film producers.)
I’ve often wondered why people who are not spiritual and not religious go to church. I’d love to learn more about that.
Last year I preached about miracles at a UU church. The first statement during the polylog was by an older man in the back. He stood and said, “Well, I’m an atheist” and sat down. I wasn’t sure what his point was. He didn’t want to dialog.
The sad part, many UU congregations are blantantly anti-Christian. It’s odd to me to accept pagans, wiccans, atheists, Jews, Quakers, etc., without question, while Christians are frowned upon. (I am aware that strongly Christian UU congregations may frown on non-Christians.) Not coincidentally, all 3 of the Christian UUs in my seminary are switching to UCC. (You know, Unitarians Considering Christ.)
Karen, what would wide acceptance of atheists and atheism look like?
Hey I am the guy that made this video… I’m glad to see you guys like it!
Like people already said, the point of this videos is to show that atheists arent bad, and in some cases are better than the christians (like with divorce and crime rate). The reason that I quote the Bible is to show that the Bible is WRONG, and that if you believe the bible, you must believe that all those people are evil and foolish.
As for having only white people… I actually didnt even realize that until I read it here. I really have no excuse. I just went down the list and found people that I thought would surprise the public or had some big contribution to society.
Also, I double checked everyone in this video… I have quotes that confirm that every person here is an atheist. Such as Lance Armstrong who said in a Time magazine interview, “I don’t have anything against organized religion per se. We all need something in our lives. I personally just have not accepted that belief. But I’m one of the few.”
The video fails to make a valid point. He showed intelligence and talent. You can be intelligent and talented and still be a fool. Statitics can be made to show anything. The Bible’s “no good” is a bit more complicated than the maker of this video gives credit. And talking about what one does not know, is foolish.
Wouldn’t that make the folks who claim to know what happens after death, claim to know there is a God, claim to know there is such a thing as a human spirit…foolish?
The athiest is the one not holding a belief because they do not know what the truth is. How does that make them foolish?
I thought the collage effect was well done. My main critique would somewhat mirror Clay’s. There is a world of a difference between being “smart” or “intellectual” and being “wise”. When the Bible mentions “foolishness” it is in terms of wisdom. Wisdom focuses on an attitude of the heart towards one’s position in the world in relation to others and God, NOT, in other words, figuring things out mentally or scientifically.
Wisdom is only linked to knowledge indirectly. Wisdom is concerned how one employs knowledge ethically. One must understand the context of the Bible…the quote is from one of the Psalms. I believe it isn’t fair or “wise” to discount a poetic, hyperbolic statement from someone who is deliberately trying to point out our dependence on God. Hyperbole is employed when one overstates, even exaggerates in order to make a point. We do that all the time. The Bible is no exception. For instance, we use hyperbole when we say that “this headache is killing me.” Everyone knows that I’m exaggerating, or overstating the fact that my head hurts. To say that every heart is evil is to do pretty much the same thing, because there are plenty of examples of people’s hearts being oriented to God in the Bible.
One may be fully functional in today’s world as an atheist, but that doesn’t make it wise or humble or ethical.
In response I would compare Richard Dawkins’s “knowledge” with Francis Collins’s “knowledge plus wisdom.”
That’s my response….and perhaps some people will be offended. I’m sorry. Obviously I’m defending the sense of the scripture that Zachary Kroger finds WRONG. Nonetheless, my chief critique, which is essential, is the difference between “knowledge” (that his atheist heroes demonstrate) and “wisdom.”
When the Psalms make hyperbolic statements such as “no one is good” or that evil is in everyone’s heart, the Psalmist is including EVERYONE: Jew, Gentile, heathen, pagan, Christian (nowadays…when it was written, Christians didn’t exist)…EVERYONE. That is the core of the idea of the Fall. Long story short: all humans have a tendency to be prideful, selfish, greedy, lustful, etc… and none of us avoid that. I would go on to say, however, that these same fallen human beings are likewise capable of being good: generous, loving, peaceful, cooperative, helpful, friendly, etc. I do NOT believe that we are all one (evil) or all the other (good.) I don’t think it is particularily useful to try to articulate whether we are primarily good or evil: we are a mixture of both and are either moving hellwards or heavenwards with every ambition or aspiration we put into practice.
Finally: I would hold=out that there are indeed some wise atheists who only disbelieve in God because very lousy, very untrue conceptions of God have been taught them, presented to them. They reject false representations of God. This may very well be the beginning or wisdom for them.
Comment by: Julie marie
1my first husband heard Carl Sagan speak at the Air Force Academy. He was really upset about the speech, told me he didn’t like Sagan but would never say why. Now I suspect atheism was the reason. It must’ve come up.
I have noticed that as I’ve told my friends about this blog, they get uncomfortable. I guess maybe I don’t realize how far down the bench I’ve slid. (slidden? sled? slown? slided? where is my grammar teacher now? hopefully not reading this sentance!)
Comment by: Helen M.
2A few years ago I read Carl Sagan’s The Demon Haunted World (after seeing it recommended by a number of atheists) and I really liked it. It’s about the scientific method. I didn’t find him to be unnecessarily disrespectful about religion like I find some other atheist authors.
Also - maybe you never were sitting quite as close to each other as you thought.
Comment by: skikid
3The video got me thinking (right now I am packing so the mind can wander). IT seems that among the great minds of the world, past an present there is not consensus about a higher being. The video showed many brilliant atheists, but there are people like Jimmy Carter (Baptist) or Albert Einstein (Jewish), the Dali Lama, the list could go on for a long time. It is a rather humbling (but positive) remider that my beliefs are my own and I value them but they are not ‘better’ than anyone elses.
Comment by: Pam Hogeweide
4i really liked the sound track of the video, and the mtv’ish way of collaging images together. it kept my attention, even if i only am a dumb, monotheistic, undereducated working class white woman.
it was interesting to me that the producer of the video did not include any people of color or third world nationality.
are the atheists of the world only white europeans or americans? and predominantly male?
of course not, but apparently only the white male atheists are cool enough with their accomplishments afforded to them by great education and opportunity to make the A list of the video. (there were a few women, mostly actresses and the brilliant marie curie)
i guess all i can say is that i’d rather be a fool that believes in God and discover I’m deceived than be a genuis (or an actor) who finds out that God is real. I’m ok with being a fool.
thanks for video friday, helen. have a great weekend!
Comment by: Helen M.
5Pam, did you interpret the video as saying Christians are dumb? I didn’t find that in there. I only saw a defense of atheists against the accusation that their lack of belief in God proves them all to be ‘fools’.
You’re welcome and, you too!
Comment by: Helen M.
6I agree.
Comment by: Karen
7Wow - very cool! Thanks Helen.
To me, if it does nothing else, it lets people know that lots of admirable people who’ve made contributions to society are atheists. Seeing someone like Lance Armstrong (whom I didn’t know was an atheist) or Jodie Foster (whom I did know about) gives the viewer a positive role model to associate with atheism - which counters the negative stuff, both from the bible and from the public opinion surveys cited at the beginning.
I did notice the focus on white (mostly) males, and I see that often, sadly. There are fewer women in skeptics and atheists circles. As for race, I’m not sure whether it’s a bias on the part of the filmmaker, or whether there just aren’t that many people of color who have “come out” as atheists. Strictly speaking, Buddhism is not a theistic religion, but I don’t know that Buddhists would identify as atheists.
Anyway, it’s great to see something positive is out there. I hope it gets wide circulation, and that it encourages other atheists to come out of the closet. :-)
Comment by: Doreen
8Well that was thought-provoking. But you can take a lot of the Bible out of context and use it to try and prove all kinds of points.
Several of those listed as atheist are listed (and quoted) elsewhere as agnostic. Christopher Reeve was a UU. I’ve heard Lance Armstrong say he is spiritual but not religious. If you are spiritual but don’t believe in a deity, are you still atheist?
I couldn’t help but notice the relatively high percentage of L/G/B people in the supposed atheist category. (I say supposed because I’ve never met any of these people and asked them what they believe.)
One can be brilliant intellectually and still be a fool.
From the atheist perspective, what’s the point of this film?
doreen
poetcomic.blogspot.com
Comment by: TXatheist
9Doreen,
I don’t have to prove the bible is anything. I’m content as an atheist that’s all. I call myself agnostic atheist. I am UU also. I don’t consider myself spiritual but I go to UU church, I’m still an atheist. Lance Armstrong is still an atheist I bet. Atheist, it’s not believiing in any gods. All Buddhists are spiritual not theists. You can probably write Seth Green a letter or visit
http://www.celebatheists.com
and read up. If you go to UU church you may meet some Gay people who believe in god or my not believe. I guarantee there are other atheists who are gay and heterosexual also like me in most UU churches.
The point is people don’t necessarily believe in god.
TXatheist
Comment by: Karen
10To counter the common belief among religious people that atheists are immoral, confused, non-contributors to society. Atheists are consistently voted as the “least-trusted” minority in America. Showing that people we trust and admire are atheists is positive.
Bringing the concept of atheism out of the closet, where it’s resided since forever, is always helpful in terms of wider acceptance of atheists and atheism.
Comment by: Doreen
11TXatheist,
I guess I find it ironic that people who don’t believe in God are using the Bible (i.e., the word of God) to try and prove a point. (I’m not saying that of anyone here but of the film producers.)
I’ve often wondered why people who are not spiritual and not religious go to church. I’d love to learn more about that.
Last year I preached about miracles at a UU church. The first statement during the polylog was by an older man in the back. He stood and said, “Well, I’m an atheist” and sat down. I wasn’t sure what his point was. He didn’t want to dialog.
The sad part, many UU congregations are blantantly anti-Christian. It’s odd to me to accept pagans, wiccans, atheists, Jews, Quakers, etc., without question, while Christians are frowned upon. (I am aware that strongly Christian UU congregations may frown on non-Christians.) Not coincidentally, all 3 of the Christian UUs in my seminary are switching to UCC. (You know, Unitarians Considering Christ.)
Karen, what would wide acceptance of atheists and atheism look like?
doreen
Comment by: Zachary Kroger
12Hey I am the guy that made this video… I’m glad to see you guys like it!
Like people already said, the point of this videos is to show that atheists arent bad, and in some cases are better than the christians (like with divorce and crime rate). The reason that I quote the Bible is to show that the Bible is WRONG, and that if you believe the bible, you must believe that all those people are evil and foolish.
As for having only white people… I actually didnt even realize that until I read it here. I really have no excuse. I just went down the list and found people that I thought would surprise the public or had some big contribution to society.
Also, I double checked everyone in this video… I have quotes that confirm that every person here is an atheist. Such as Lance Armstrong who said in a Time magazine interview, “I don’t have anything against organized religion per se. We all need something in our lives. I personally just have not accepted that belief. But I’m one of the few.”
Zak
Comment by: Helen M.
13Hi Zak,
Thanks for stopping by and responding to some of the comments about your video - I appreciate it!
Also, thanks for reassuring us you didn’t deliberately focus on white male atheists :)
Comment by: Zachary Kroger
14I do have Bruce Lee up there though… he isnt… white. Crap, ok well at least he isnt European.
Comment by: Clay
15The video fails to make a valid point. He showed intelligence and talent. You can be intelligent and talented and still be a fool. Statitics can be made to show anything. The Bible’s “no good” is a bit more complicated than the maker of this video gives credit. And talking about what one does not know, is foolish.
Comment by: Laura M.
16Clay,
Wouldn’t that make the folks who claim to know what happens after death, claim to know there is a God, claim to know there is such a thing as a human spirit…foolish?
The athiest is the one not holding a belief because they do not know what the truth is. How does that make them foolish?
Comment by: Pete S.
17I thought the collage effect was well done. My main critique would somewhat mirror Clay’s. There is a world of a difference between being “smart” or “intellectual” and being “wise”. When the Bible mentions “foolishness” it is in terms of wisdom. Wisdom focuses on an attitude of the heart towards one’s position in the world in relation to others and God, NOT, in other words, figuring things out mentally or scientifically.
Wisdom is only linked to knowledge indirectly. Wisdom is concerned how one employs knowledge ethically. One must understand the context of the Bible…the quote is from one of the Psalms. I believe it isn’t fair or “wise” to discount a poetic, hyperbolic statement from someone who is deliberately trying to point out our dependence on God. Hyperbole is employed when one overstates, even exaggerates in order to make a point. We do that all the time. The Bible is no exception. For instance, we use hyperbole when we say that “this headache is killing me.” Everyone knows that I’m exaggerating, or overstating the fact that my head hurts. To say that every heart is evil is to do pretty much the same thing, because there are plenty of examples of people’s hearts being oriented to God in the Bible.
One may be fully functional in today’s world as an atheist, but that doesn’t make it wise or humble or ethical.
In response I would compare Richard Dawkins’s “knowledge” with Francis Collins’s “knowledge plus wisdom.”
That’s my response….and perhaps some people will be offended. I’m sorry. Obviously I’m defending the sense of the scripture that Zachary Kroger finds WRONG. Nonetheless, my chief critique, which is essential, is the difference between “knowledge” (that his atheist heroes demonstrate) and “wisdom.”
When the Psalms make hyperbolic statements such as “no one is good” or that evil is in everyone’s heart, the Psalmist is including EVERYONE: Jew, Gentile, heathen, pagan, Christian (nowadays…when it was written, Christians didn’t exist)…EVERYONE. That is the core of the idea of the Fall. Long story short: all humans have a tendency to be prideful, selfish, greedy, lustful, etc… and none of us avoid that. I would go on to say, however, that these same fallen human beings are likewise capable of being good: generous, loving, peaceful, cooperative, helpful, friendly, etc. I do NOT believe that we are all one (evil) or all the other (good.) I don’t think it is particularily useful to try to articulate whether we are primarily good or evil: we are a mixture of both and are either moving hellwards or heavenwards with every ambition or aspiration we put into practice.
Finally: I would hold=out that there are indeed some wise atheists who only disbelieve in God because very lousy, very untrue conceptions of God have been taught them, presented to them. They reject false representations of God. This may very well be the beginning or wisdom for them.
BICBW