Posted by Helen on: 06.29.2006 /
In A Generous Orthodoxy Brian McLaren astutely observes:
For too many people the name Jesus has become a symbol of exclusion, as if Jesus’ statement
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me”
actually means
“I am in the way of people seeking truth and life; I won’t let anyone get to God unless he comes through me.”
If we read Jesus’ statement in context (here’s the Bible passage – John 13:33-14:31):
- What was the context? Did Jesus make this statement during an “Evangelism 101″ lesson to his followers or was something else going on?
- Was Jesus’ statement for his own followers or for them to use in debate with other people?
- What main point(s) of Jesus was this particular statement supporting?
Also:
- Do we know what Jesus meant by “through me’?
- Can Christians be certain that “through me’ means “You must consciously acknowledge me in the precise way some Christian is telling you”?
- Have you ever helped anyone without their knowledge?
- Is it possible that “through me’ could encompass something Jesus does for some people without their knowledge?
Some Christians evidently believe Jesus’s statement is meant to be used with people who aren’t Christians to prove: “If you don’t share my precise belief about/relationship with Jesus, you’re going to hell”. To reach that conclusion thoughtfully they must have considered and answered all the above questions in a particular way.
- Does the passage itself support their answers?
- Does the passage in its entirety support or contradict the idea that being a follower of Jesus has everything to do with how we behave?
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53 Responses to "Jesus: ‘The Way’ or ‘in the way’?"
Comment by: Julie Marie
1Helen,
Thanks for bringing out this scripture. Your excellent questions are helping me think it through; they are helping me flesh out my infant idea of this statement being universal rather than exclusive.
Jesus was talking intimately with his disciples; he was starting the goodbye process, but trying to give them hope also. This was not a speech to the multitudes.
One part I find provocative right now: in my fathers house there are many rooms. What could this mean? I’m thinking right now — many rooms could be a metaphor for this thought: God’s umbrella is large and covers many stages of belief — from non belief through faithful belief, through lost belief. There is a place for all.
But to the point addressed by the blog entry: Jesus’ big reveal is in response to a question from Thomas: Lord, we don’t know where we are going, how can we know the way?
It is to this question Jesus says “I am the way the truth and the light, no one comes to the father except through me.” That could be interpreted as follow my ways—and you will come to know the father. That not quite the same as “Proclaim I am Lord of All and I’ll give you a pass into Heaven. If you don’t proclaim thusly, I will cast you into Hell.” Quite frankly, the second statement doesn’t sound much like something Jesus would say.
This idea is further supported by Helen’s observation on another blog that the great commission was go make disciples of all…not go make believers of all. Disciples act on their beliefs…they follow the ways of their teacher.
Doubt and unbelief is dealt with again after the resurrection, again through Thomas. When Thomas doubted, rather than shun him, Jesus gave him the proof he needed to believe. He didn’t call Thomas a fool. Jesus gave him what he needed. I take great comfort in this realization.
Comment by: Bob
2If I remember right, McClaren used this thesis as a jumping off point to say something similar to what Julie Marie is talking about: maybe (McClaren suggests) Jesus wasn’t in the way but rather was showing the way. If you imitate his life, then you’ll get to the Father, too.
I think this is a very attractive line of thinking that pleases most people’s idea of God–”If I’m a good person (maybe like Jesus, maybe like Ghandi, maybe like kind ol’ Mrs. Pearson at the end of the block,…), God will be pleased with me and let me into heaven. Surely a loving god couldn’t send nice people to hell…”
But (Julie this will sound familar) then what does the cross have to do with him setting an example of how to be good?
The context of these words is Jesus’ farewell speech to his disciples. He wanted to make sure they understood who He was, what He was doing, and what would happen next. The statement highlighted by McClaren is only one of many exclusive statements made throughout Chps 13-17 as well as the rest of the NT.
I’d like to introduce another emphasis. Instead of Jesus being in the way, of Jesus showing the way, how about Jesus is saying he is the way, he is creating the way and offering it to all who would believe in Him.
He is the one who will provide not only a path to the Father but the means through which that path can be traversed: through his death and resurrection and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (the Counselor). I think He is claiming exclusivity here (again, if he wasn’t, why die on the cross?) but not as a gauntlet thrown down but as a provision. This is where the statement above about “if I’m good, then…” is reversed. With Christianity, Christ is able to “make us good and as a result we…”
To answer your question about something done without you knowledge, I guess I’d say yes–Christ died for us while we were yet sinners, before we knew him. In the provision of the way that he is, he has.
Now how one comes to know him and what form(s) the acquistion of that knowledge takes, I get real fuzzy. I don’t think it always takes the form of walking down an aisle or reciting the sinner’s prayer along with the preacher. IMO, that would be the minority of cases–more like just one feature along the journey.
But, again IMO, I think belief in Christ overtakes those he reveals himself to and (against all the human thinking that makes sense to me) he only chooses some out of this world. I don’t like to say that but when you read these chapters (13-17) it’s hard to overlook the repeated statements to this effect.
Comment by: Helen M.
3Julie Marie, thanks for your comments.
As I recall, other people have liked the possibilities that ‘many rooms’ opens up. Similarly with Jesus’ comment in John chapter 10: “I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.”
People who believe the Bible is God’s Word must find verses supporting their position or abandon it as untrue. And so they trade verses back and forth saying “My verse proves this…” “But mine proves otherwise…”. And one of them might have the ‘trump card’ of “There are more verses supporting my position!” But in the end it seems to me that it’s a judgment call whose verses should be chosen as the foundation to build the house of doctrine upon.
People who have less definite beliefs about the relationship between the Bible text and what is ‘true’ have the freedom to simply say “Perhaps some Bible authors had a better understanding of God than others”. But it still (in my opinion) is a judgment call which authors had the best understanding. (Or perhaps I should simply assume it’s the ones who agree with me! ;))
Anyway, I love when people are willing to read the Bible text thoughtfully and discuss it creatively. The most frustrating thing for me is having a Christian look at me blankly and say “But it’s obvious what that text means!”
I was in a reformed Jewish Bible study years ago; the passage being studied was Joseph and Potiphar’s wife. I was shocked when one woman said “I think Joseph led her on!” since the text portrays Joseph as the innocent unwilling victim of Potiphar’s wife’s attention. But now I look back and think “Wow – how awesome is that, that she felt free to say that?”
Comment by: Helen M.
4Yes – I take your point.
That’s why I got tired of trying to make the Bible say what I wanted it to say. Because even if I could find hints of what I wanted it to say in some places, it still said the things I had trouble with in other places.
Whatever the Bible says, I have trouble thinking that if someone says “I don’t care about Jesus because Christians are such jerks”, a fully human Jesus would say “Too bad – believe or else…”. I think he’d say “Me too! Hey, let’s talk about it…” (Although, Jesus wouldn’t gossip, so – I might have to rethink that a little ;))
Comment by: Julie Marie
5The standard teaching is through the cross God was reconciled with sinners. I still maintain I don’t understand the mystery of calvary. But if you look at the following scripture, a few verses down from “I am the way”
Jesus says the cross shows his will to stay within his Fathers will no matter the cost. He would not move out of the will of the Father (sin) no matter what. Could the cross be the most extreme demonstration of the way?
In another place Jesus says take up your cross and follow me.
To me that implies the cross could be an extreme metaphor for Gods will for your life. Jesus was showing extreme obediance…thankfully, few of us are asked to show that. But we might have to sacrifice other things of value to us. Why was it Gods will for his son to die on a cross? I do not know. Its something I just cannot understand at this point in my journey.
Comment by: Bob
6But the result of not being able to making the Bible say what you wanted was to reject it entirely (as untrue)?
I agree with your “Me too!” conjecture on Jesus’ attitude, though. Of course, I’d put words more like “why are you paying attention to them and not me? Is it fair to judge me based on the actions of them?”
Comment by: Julie Marie
7Yes…I admire the ROAA she allowed herself. Its not easy for me to even write some of the thoughts that are running through my mind now they are so outside the ROAA that I am used to. But I have reached a point where I must start talking about it. I’m glad I found a place where I can.
Comment by: Helen M.
8I haven’t rejected it entirely (as untrue). I’ve backed away from my commitment to it being entirely true. To me, those are not the same.
How about this: “Because I can see and hear them and I can’t see or hear you?”
How about this: “I think so, because they claim to be your followers and I’ve neither heard you disown them nor seen you fix them.
Comment by: Helen M.
9So am I, Julie Marie!
Comment by: Bob
10Therein lies the rub, eh? If we could be justified by the Law…
Comment by: Helen M.
11Did you ever understand it, Julie Marie?
Or did you deal with it by accepting that since it was God’s will and God is perfect, there must be some explanation that makes sense to God but which we can’t grasp because we’re only human?
Comment by: Helen M.
12…or, if God could just forgive us anyway like we just forgive people sometimes
…or, if God couldn’t, but Jesus died for us all anyway because he cares about people enough that he’d do something like that…
I don’t know why these aren’t also possibilities.
Comment by: Julie Marie
13yeah, that about sums it up. I dealt with it by saying I’ll ask God about it when I get to heaven.
Comment by: Helen M.
14…which I expect you’d been taught was an absolute certainty for you, unlike all those other people who for whatever reason refused to accept God’s terms and conditions… ;)
Comment by: Julie Marie
15Or, if sin is defined as an inability to stay in Gods will, then the cross was not accepting the punishment we deserve but rather providing the avenue for release of the Holy Spirit to help us stay in Gods will…in a metaphysical sense, a way we cannot understand in our physical world…and have thus translated it into a concept we do understand, disobediance and punishment…
I don’t know. I’m getting too far outside of my own ROAA. Just pondering.
Comment by: Julie Marie
16right. which one tries ones best not to dwell on, but because one does love…it becomes impossible not to dwell on it. so being human, one decides that the answer to the tension is to go around making sure everyone understands how absolutely important it is to accept those terms and conditions. but then you realize you are in danger of becoming an arrogant jerk. which is hardly the picture of Jesus. So then one really has a crisis on ones hands and has to rethink the whole thing. And one gets bloggers elbow from leaning on ones elbows typing ones thoughts out all the time.
hypothetically, of course.
Comment by: Helen M.
17blogger’s elbow?
Yeah, no way would I know about anything like that… ;)
Comment by: Julie Marie
18no, no, of course not.
Comment by: jim
19Wow – you guys are really into this
This is why people need to come to the Conference in Nov in Seattle to meet Brian and Helen and Casper
Comment by: Bob
20Sorry, had to step out to go golfing…I was thinking it about this on the course, though.
As I’ve been reading lately I’m recognizing that there are a lot of things that are pretty clear in the Bible. I do understand what they say–they may not be things that I want to believe aboutt a god I would create–but they are pretty clear. At first my response was “Yes, but…” or “But why…” Then it was “well maybe it really means…”
Now I’m more in the “So now what…” camp. A lot of the things that are objectionable turn out to be God’s responsibility to discern. Who goes to heaven, who goes to hell, how does one get there, what must they do or be.
The things that turn out to be my responsibility are also pretty understandable “love one another” “obey my commands”, etc. The important thing here is what is says and what it doesn’t say. It says “love one another” not “love those who you feel are worthy of love” It says “obey my commands” not “force others to obey my commands”.
I think this approach has protected me from trying to defend or explain God. It also protects me from judging or condemning others. Most importantly, it keeps me from trying to explain away or ignore chunks of the Bible or start to create a god in my own image.
Comment by: Bob
21Nice plug, Jim ;-)
Comment by: jim
22that s my job – since Im not smart enough to engage in this dialog
Comment by: Helen M.
23Hey that’s neat, because that’s where I am too! :)
Indeed.
Nice distinction.
I guess I’ve quit trying to defend or explain God but for a different reason ;)
I try to guard against those things.
I don’t do anything in particular with the Bible, or with God.
However, perhaps they do things with me :)
Comment by: Helen M.
24Not smart enough…or too smart, perhaps… ;)
Comment by: Bob
25Mmmm… I’ll let that gem rumble around in my head for a while.
Comment by: Helen M.
26Bob, a lot of thought on my part has gone into those two statements of mine (whether it shows or not!)
I refer you to Psalm 139:1-10 ;)
Comment by: Bob
27I could tell (thought went in). That’s why I plan to take time to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Comment by: Helen M.
28Ok – I’m glad you could tell and didn’t think I was just being flippant.
Comment by: Helen M.
29There’s also “in him we live and move and have our being” – Acts 17:28a.
Comment by: Bob
30Thanks.
So now how do these reflections pertain to the subject:
Does Jesus stand in the way
Is he showing the way
Is he, himself, the way (implying that apart from him, there is no way)
Is it how we interpret and apply what he taught or is it living in him (not imitating but “live and move and have our being”) that is “the way”?
Comment by: Julie Marie
31Bob said
great points for me to remember when I feel my brain start to melt from thinking so hard about this stuff. thanks
Helen wrote
I think that may be the most quietly profound original thought on the thread.
Bob asked:
and I wonder…in some unfathomable way, if the abiity to “live and move and have our being” in him is what was accomplished on the cross. A move towards the positive, rather than a solution to the negative.
Thanks Helen and Bob for the excellent conversation. I had to step out of it for awhile to take my son on a field trip to the aquarium, which I looked at in a much broader way as a result of Siamang and CautiousManiacs threads on the DB!
Comment by: Helen M.
32Thanks for your comments Julie Marie and Bob.
I’ll let them rumble around in my head while I go wait to meet my husband’s parents at the airport.
Comment by: Bob
33It’s both (IMO).
Comment by: Julie Marie
34Probably so. finding balance between the two concepts is the trickly part.
Comment by: NCxian
35Bob, you wrote:
Just to play devil’s advocate here a little bit, do you believe you have a commission to make disciples? What do you tell potential disciples about what it takes to be adequately “in”? Does it involve certain beliefs? A particular reading of the Bible? You say that Jesus claims “exclusivity”. When you teach others what that means, who do you say is excluded? Do you say, “Jesus was clear about telling me to make disciples for him, but I don’t know how you get to be one–or what beliefs might prevent you from being one?” The implication to me, when I read “it’s God’s responsibility to discern” is that “it’s not my (Bob’s) responsibilty to discern”. Then how, practically speaking, do you operate vis-a-vis sharing the Good News?
The “live and move and have our being” in Christ is sort of where I am with the “I am the way . . . believe in me” passages of the Bible. (I am by nature a mystic). But I wonder, can a person be “living and moving and having his/her being” in Jesus, without holding to a specified set of beliefs? For instance, Ghandhi or whoever the most devout, Christ-like Jew, Muslim, Mormon or Jehovah’s Witness might be? I don’t mean at all because they are “good” and have “earned” their way to heaven. No, I mean, if I believe in a living God, and commit my live to living in intentional union with that living God, is that not Jesus, whether I call him/her/it that or not? Because there is only one living God? Or must I hold a particular set of beliefs about that living God, whom you and I call Jesus? What beliefs are required to “cling to the cross”–must they be particular beliefs about the cross, or can it be a living, breathing relationship INSTEAD?
Comment by: Helen M.
36Thanks for noticing it, Julie Marie. Like I told Bob, quite a lot of thought on my part has gone into that.
Yes – that’s the way I think too – that maybe something was done on the cross that had to be done; but maybe it’s not wise to be too certain about exactly how that transaction operated.
There are so many things about the cross which seem profound and possibly important to me.
Neat!
I certainly was thinking about evolution and ID when I went through the Evolving Planet with my children a week ago (as I mentioned on the db)
Thanks for your contribution to the conversation, Julie Marie. It wouldn’t have beeen excellent without you!
Comment by: Helen M.
37Good point, NCxian!
I wonder that too. And it’s such a ‘natural’ sounding relationship – no striving to hear God or contriving that we heard his voice. Wouldn’t it be ironic if when we stop trying he’s there anyway? Just as involved as ever, in every good thing we do.
Comment by: Helen M.
38Why on earth would he do a thing like that? I don’t think this can be possible.
Maybe and maybe in more ways than we realize. Maybe he’s there a lot of times without us knowing.
He might be the way if the way is open to all; otherwise I don’t understand why he’d shut people out. Think about humanity – most people are loved by someone. Would that person shut them out? Then can Jesus have less love than that? And if someone is loved by no-one then wouldn’t Jesus on the cross have deeply empathized with someone in such a plight?
Yes ;) (imo)
Comment by: Eliza
39Amazing discussion, you guys.
No, but it feels like a blockade when some Christians insist that John 14:6 is the crystallization of Jesus’s teachings (meaning: accept Him overtly the same way I do, or you’re toast). There are so many stories in the gospels of Jesus acknowledging and praising people’s faith, example of note being the Roman centurion in Luke 7:2-10, or telling them they had a place in his Father’s kingdom, when the person had not “accepted” Jesus as “the way, the truth, and the life” – but instead had faith in God (at least, that’s how it comes across on my reading).
This seems so key to me in the gospels – Jesus did not exclude people who needed help or love, nor those who helped or loved others – he preferentially sought out the sinners, the lepers, the unclean, the needy – and tried to avoid the crowds who called his name & followed him everywhere he went.
Comment by: Lisa W.
40How wonderful when Eliza/Atheist/Skeptic takes the words right out of my Xian mouth. (Eliza, when I am on vacation in Paris next week I will raise a glass of champagne in your direction!)
I work at a police department that has many volunteers. Some are trained to step in to direct traffic when the signal lights go out at intersections. It’s an important and dangerous job. Some people may see this traffic director as being ‘in the way’; while others may see this person as an imperative guide through hazardous conditions….
Have fun with that metaphor.
Comment by: Helen M.
41Eliza wrote:
You’re absolutely right, Eliza.
My response was from Jesus’ point of view – I was thinking, it makes no sense to me that he would deliberately stand in anyone’s way.
But as you point out, the way some Christians use that verse seems to have the effect of making him stand in the way of God.
Comment by: Helen M.
42Oooh, Lisa, have a wonderful trip!!!
Thanks for the thought-provoking metaphor – I’ll think about it ;)
Comment by: Bob
43Yes.
Nope. I try to keep from projecting that there is an “in”. I don’t want people to follow me so I don’t want to impose my walk on them. I walk my walk before them. They will develop their own as Christ is made manifest in them.
I can’t read the Bible (OT and NT) and not see statements of exclusivity and distinctions between those who are and are not God’s people. I don’t like it but that isn’t for me to determine. That said, I can’t find hard and fast rules as to who God will choose and who He won’t choose. I cast my net, or scatter seed by living a quiet, visible walk and trust God to gather those He will through me. The thing that helped me the most in fleshing this out is to adopt a longer time frame. I think now in terms of generations rather than “this week’s sermon”.
“Clinging to the cross” is less about a particular way of thinking (orthodoxy) and more about a particular way of living (orthopraxy). I spend more time resting in what Jesus has done and is doing in and around me rather than what I will do for Him. Something like this from My Utmost.
Comment by: Bob
44Exclusivity and being exclusive are two different things, aren’t they? I mean I can be the sole source of something and give freely to all who will come (have exclusivity) OR I can enforce strict guidelines as to who I will give things to (be exclusive). Jesus claims exclusivity without being exclusive. I think the Bible supports this differentiation.
In that, I think you’re right and he was most quickly identified among those who have been excluded.
Comment by: Bob
45(I like my thoughts on exclusivity in comment #44 more than the way it came out in comment #43. That’s the problem with conversation, our ideas evolve as we go along..)
Comment by: Helen M.
46Thanks Bob – this is an interesting distinction.
Calvinists manage to make the two the same by saying that only those Jesus chooses will come.
I think that makes the offer to all deceptive but of course they don’t agree.
Anyway I wonder why people have to come. Could this be possible? A person who isn’t coming gets condemned by some Christians for not coming. But Jesus completely understands why that person is not coming. In fact Jesus thinks that person’s reasons for not coming are better than the reasons for coming of the Christians who condemned that person!
I seriously wonder if that’s possible.
Comment by: Bob
47I have the same stumbling block you point out but, as with the exclusivity stuff, I read too many understandable verses pertaining to this to ignore. Just because I don’t like it, don’t make it untrue…
There’s hope in your statement of:
He does understand us better than we understand ourselves and his opinion is the only one that matters. Our “reasons” are irrelevant.
Comment by: Helen M.
48Bob, I’m very familiar with that way of thinking so I do understand where you’re coming from.
On the other hand, if I’m made in the image of God, maybe my likes and dislikes aren’t entirely irrelevant in assessing God’s likes and dislikes.
Furthermore, it’s not just my likes and dislikes. I don’t think I’ve ever found anyone who likes the idea of hell. They may accept it and argue that it’s just and/or brings out God’s glory but – I don’t think it would be correct to say they like it, per se.
I’m glad you find hope in it. I do too.
Comment by: Bob
49Helen, This statement of yours has been puzzling me for a couple days (you stated it way back up in comment #23). Could you expand on the meaning behind your wink here?
Comment by: Helen M.
50Hi Bob,
Maybe I shouldn’t have put the wink there because it’s a serious topic.
Anyway I think I put it there because most people here would realize why I don’t try to defend or explain God any more and they’d know my reason is different from yours.
But I shouldn’t assume people have prior knowledge about me. So – the reason I’ve quit trying to defend or explain God is that I’m too uncertain about God’s nature and even God’s existence to know what to say.
Although – I probably do try to defend/explain God if I come across a belief about God that seems particularly hurtful to humanity. That tends to motivate me into using various Bible passages to present a kinder God. If there are Bible verses in support of a kinder God I may as well share them with people. Who knows? Perhaps it will help someone.
Comment by: tim
51ahhhh i love this conversation!
good stuff
thats something ive thought about a lot. C. S. Lewis says something pretty similar in Mere Christianity, about how one perhaps can belong to Christ in a very real way without being aware of it, or ‘believing’ the ‘right’ things about Him.
Comment by: Helen
52Thanks for your comment, Tim!
Comment by: Steve S.
53“…the command is to take and eat, not take and understand…”
to paraphrase Lewis