Posted by Eliza on: 07.11.2006 /
Coincidentally, this springboards in a small way (I think!) from Julie Marie’s discussion yesterday on Ending the Culture Wars. I’m interested in how some people display their beliefs on bumperstickers and message T-shirts, even tattoos, and also subtler methods like message jewelry. These things seem minor but they may actually be major pokes-in-the-side in the “culture wars.” I wanted to see if others find some of these as potent reminders of divisions — and I wanted to see if anyone has ideas on whether this might be a co-optable route to spread a message of cohesion not divison.
I like reading bumper stickers, but have never put any on my own car. Let me rephrase: I like reading bumper stickers that I agree with, or that make me laugh, but I get kinda mad when I read bumper stickers that I don’t agree with, or which seem to be poking fun at “my kind” or are “in my face.” There are a lot of bumper stickers I like and am tempted to get, but I (and my husband) don’t see the need to risk offending anyone, or to trumpet our/my viewpoint, on the road or in the parking lot. If I were to pick one or two, they would be most likely to choose one of the ones I think could be potentially politically-neutral: Visualize Whirled Peas, or Think…It’s Patriotic, or This Land is Our Land. (But those may still come across as “liberal”…?)
I’ve noticed that I tend to watch cars with “offensive” bumper stickers — that mostly means ones supporting a political or religious stance I don’t agree with, or sometimes a just plain rude bumper sticker with swear words on it - & I crow if I see them driving rudely or breaking traffic laws. It’s easy to think, “see, I knew those people were just like that!” I’m not proud of doing this, but it’s also kind of unconscious. On the other hand, vehicles that have bumper stickers I agree with — those “lefty” types — well, they never drive poorly, do they? Or if they do, I never generalize to blame “their type” — “my type” - it’s quite possible that I give them leeway I wouldn’t give the others, and am not even aware of doing that.
I have a few message T-shirts I wear once in a while, when I think the message wouldn’t be inappropriate. Of course, I may not have an objective sense of how they come across. I can tell more about them in a response, but more pressing is the minivan I saw yesterday sporting 3 Christian messages on the back; I could only gape. I ended up wondering what I was supposed to think about this van and these people. The messages on the back were:
First, the fish emblem. I “get” that it’s a Christian symbol. OK, clue #1 received, the owner/driver is a Christian. I do wonder what type of person decides to put one of those on their car; are they just sending a subtle “I’m Christian” message or is there something more to it? But I see a lot of these, and about an equal number of “Darwin” fishes. (These emblems look a lot like the car’s make and model lettering on the back — almost like they came with the car. I can see it now: “Time to decide on the last “option” for your new car. Would you like the Christian version or the Darwinist version?”)
But second, what’s with the bumper sticker? The owner of the car may be certain that Jesus loves him or her and may be delighted to share that information, but it comes across as prideful — and having “and you too” in smaller letters seems like a slap. Maybe the owner didn’t intend this, but imo this bumpersticker says “I’m better than you”. (Maybe even to another Christian?)
And finally, WHAT is with the license plate holder? This does not seem tongue in cheek. This person seems to be a “serious” Christian, expecting the rapture. But, boy, if he/she means it, (1) what hubris — to be certain that he/she will be one of the 144,000 on earth raptured, and (2) for the sake of the passengers, which might include (unraptured) kids, and for the sake of other people on the road, shouldn’t this person refrain from driving? (I guess the point is that nothing else would matter if/when the rapture comes.)
A take-home message for me is that bumper stickers which seem funny, upbeat, right-on, and/or perfect for displaying one’s own beliefs, can be irritating to other people, and might be relaying a different message than the person who chose and applied the sticker intended. But isn’t it odd that often times this is the main mechanism many of us have to display our beliefs and positions.
If one goal is to find common ground, to display first those parts of our beliefs and positions which are most likely to resonate with other people, how might we do it?
Could bumper stickers, emblems, “message” T-shirts, and the like play a role? Or, should they definitely not play a role?
Are there any such messages you’ve seen that seem inclusive and likely to encourage interest in people from both sides of a “divide”?
Or, are there ones which the owner might have thought were “inclusive” or “provocative but positive” but which you thought raised the barriers even higher between you?
Are there other ways besides these to indicate some sort of open positioning, a willingness to dialogue and to find common ground, when dialogue isn’t already arranged and about to occur?
Comment by: Julie Marie
1I won a fish emblem in a small group several years ago for knowing that Stephen was the first martyrd apostle. I’ve never put it on my car because of just this thought: I do not always live up to the ideals behind the fish. I don’t want to be a poor witness.
The Jesus loves me and you too thing: I suspect these folks are trying to spread the love around. They just need their conciousness raised on effective communication. And the overkill folks? Oh my; they sure want everyone to know where they stand. I see that too in the “dont blame me I voted for….” stickers. usually on volvos, with greenpeace stickers and peta stickers too. Overkill from either side doesn’t build bridges.
I think humor is one very effective way to chink out a hole in the wall. I split a gut over Siamangs foshata stuff. I smile at Mike Cs Darwin fish kissing the Jesus fish. I can’t possibly miss the irony of my favorite sweatshirt from 15 years ago being an atheist statement. And then to hear IDers are using it too…more irony. Problem is, whats funny to my neighbor might not be funny to me. But I guess that would be okay too…for those people who do share similar humor styles, it could be an opening.
I guess if we could pick one facet of our “position” that is most irritating to the other side, and find a way to be humorous about it in a self deprecating yet not disresepctful way (yeah, that tightrope is pretty thin) it would create an opening moment for dialogue. Or if we could find a way to humorously and lovingly show the similarities in apparently opposite camps, that would work too.
Comment by: Julie Marie
2how about a Joan Riveresque “can we talk” T shirt showing polar opposites?
like a granola head and a ten gallon hat head.
a friendly atheist and a friendly christian. (Jim and Hemant t shirts, anyone?- with Conversation at the Edge as a tagline)
a christian and a muslim and a jew.
a gay couple and a straight couple
and then below it a “talk amongst yourselves” tag line.
I wonder if Joan has a trademark on her phrase?
Comment by: Julie Marie
3or Jim and Casper T shirts, as part of the book promo budget? I’d buy one…
Comment by: jim
4You guys are too smart and too funny
This topic brings up too many issues for me to try and cover but I think I want to feature this in our upcoming ezine since it captures and frames the issue of polarization, ROAA and vieiled meaness in such a common experience, I think alot of people will come and comment.
I will comment on one comment from Eliza
having been inside EC culture for 30 years I would have to say that the actual intention is as a “slap in the face” - Since ECs are supposed to love everybody (an incredibly high stabdard- how about we just say we’ll “try” one day at a time) they are not free to say what they really mean - so we have found other ways to say it that are indirect. Since they are frustrated by not being able to tell non Cs that they are mad at them for not joining us ( or worse - just plain stupid) they veil it with words that look like “he loves you” but sound like “he doesn;t really love you as much as he loves me - stupid”
no Eliza - this is not a misread on your part- you got the real message and that message is what motivated me to start Off The Map so we could help Christians learn how to not be jerks
One of my favorite (and easier to understand - non EC) bumper stickers is
God is coming back soon - and boy is she pissed
Comment by: Julie Marie
5wow, Jim…I never looked at it that way, but now that you spell it out for me…wow…that is really ugly. and it kind of explains an interaction that has puzzled me off and on for years. the facilitator of an anger management small group at my former church shared that during heated arguments with her spouse, she says, “well, Jesus loves you and so do I.” She was not making a joke or an example of what not to do…and I just didn’t understand how that helped the situation. I know if my husband said that to me in the middle of an argument that would incite things way beyond all reason for me. When arguing, I want to keep with the topic at hand until its hashed out…not divert with some “love” thing. Now I wonder if she really means ” in spite of your unreasonable stance on this matter, and your utter inability to see the correctness of my position, rest assured Jesus loves you. And I do too, because I am just that good and forgiving, you rotten jerk.”
Thanks for starting OTM, Jim. We sure do need it, if even our anger management specialists confuse us.
Comment by: Eliza
6Jim - yes, this does fit in with ROAA (range of acceptable answers), I hadn’t been thinking of it that way - and “veiled meanness” is a great term, probably describes pretty well alot of the messages people plaster about. It’s only funny if you’re on the same side of the divide.
Julie Marie - yikes that person needs some anger management help, I agree! Could you remind me, please, what Siamang’s “foshata” stuff was? I can’t remember…
I like the Christian fish kissing Darwin fish…you’ll laugh, I was thinking on my way in to work this AM, “but how do you find a xian fish facing right? they all seem to face left in the pictures online…” then I realized you can just turn it upside down (if there are no words in it) - a “duh!” moment on me!
With even the “find common ground” or “love one another” messages I suppose there are people who will be offended - by the Christian fish kissing Darwin fish, by “Coexist” (a UU bumper sticker)…people who don’t see any reason to consider anything outside their own ROAA, since it’s SO clearly correct ;) . I had this idea that everyone should have someone of a different belief system as a friend they could run their messages past - verbal, Tshirt, bumper sticker - to see how they come across to others. But, then where is the line between “politically correct” and “polite”? Don’t want to turn everything into bland mashed potatoes…need some gravy and fixins on the plate, too!
Comment by: Keith
7Thanks for posting this, Eliza. Though I’m a pastor, I haven’t spent a lot of time in Christian bookstores. Recently my wife and I went to a new one opening up in our neighborhood to look for a song she was wanting. There were so many t-shirts / hats / bumper stickers with phrases that just baffled me. This stuff must sell or it wouldn’t be up. Eliza, these things should bother you - it bothers my family and me. Church signs are another way Christians can accomplish negative PR. Jim, I echo Julie Marie’s sentiments - thank you for starting OTM and helping Christians not be jerks. Has anyone ever tried to confront / combat a negative message displayed on a bumper, a t-shirt, or a church sign? Curios how it mihgt have gone …
Comment by: julie marie
8siamangs foshata stuff is in common grounds, under thread ebay atheist on foshata. i’ll try a link, but i’ve never been able to make them work:
he made up some dialog and set it to some obscure japanese commercials.
Comment by: jim
9I am going to eventually put out one of those coffee table books called
Stupid Church Signs or maybe just “Church Signs” so not as to pick a fight right off the bat.
Anyway - I would ask people to send me snapshots (wow am I dating myself with that word) the funkier the better and we will position them artistically (sort of) on large pages and then randomly pose questions to the reader - almost subliminally like
If you saw this on the way to work what would you think?
Why do you think they have to tell everyone that they’re welcome?
What do you think this sign is really saying?
If someone gave you the keys to this signboard what would you put on it
Comment by: NCxian
10The most offensive bumper sticker I have ever seen said something like “If you are a Christian and voted for Clinton, you are a hypocrit”. I was dumbfounded by it for a few minutes–which was a good thing or I might have embarassed myself by sticking my head out the window and yelling at the guy at the intersection!
Comment by: julie marie
11He needs Gods Politics to fall thru his windsheild. (in a parking lot while no one is in the car, of course.)
the ones I see that irk me no end are the rebel flag “heritage not hate” ones. they are all over the place down here. the lack of empathy in that…the inablity to see that your heritage involved enslaving the ancestors of half of this states population (maybe more, I’m not positive) is really disheartening to me. the legacy is still alive today, you can see it in all the african american children with the last names of gaillard, pinckney, ravenel….and on and on…the last names of plantation owners of yesteryear, and indeed, some powerful politicians, today.
Comment by: julie marie
12haha. I love it when smart people have “‘duh’ moments. I had a legendary one last summer. we bought an air compressor (my husband does all the work on our cars and boats) and I actually asked him where do we go to buy the air for it? You should have seen his face. If he could have gotten words out he’d have been stuttering. Its not often I come out with something so utterly clueless, but when I do…wowie.
Comment by: Eliza
13heehee :)
Comment by: Eliza
14Apropos of NCxian and Julie Marie in #10 & #11 above, a bumper sticker I like (but know some people would find offensive) is: “Jesus was a liberal Jew” - !
I’m thinking of trying to find some messages that could help with “aha” moments but have minimal offensive potential (if there is such a thing!) - like the T-shirts that have the Milky Way galaxy on the front with an arrow to a dot, and says “You are here”.
Jim - I like the coffee table book idea. Good news, people could email you digital photos, could be an easy way to gather them!
Comment by: jim
15right - Ill get on it sometime
Comment by: Eliza
16Ok, cruising the internet for ideas - would these come across as offensive?
“Love thy neighbor” (with picture of the earth, or another with a colorful array of symbols from different religions - unfortunately, none w/ the humanist H that I’ve seen so far)
“Love thy neighbor…Which part wasn’t clear?” (with picture of Jesus in between the 2 lines, which I suppose some could find offensive)
Comment by: Julie marie
17I don’t find either offensive.
The problem is, LOVE is the part that isn’t clear. I think the likes of Kirk and Ray (and less abrasive evangelicals) love people by saving them from hell. They endure scorn and ridicule to witness and save.
Maybe a t shirt with a definition of love…
Comment by: Eliza
18Good point. Does the Bible define Love? Because any other definition would be open to question…
Maybe “Convert thy neighbor” with Convert struck out and “Love” written in above it - and underneath, either “In my father’s house are many rooms” or “I have other sheep, which are not in this fold”, from John?
Comment by: NCxian
19I love that, Eliza. I think I would keep it simple and leave off the subtitle altogether.
Julie, maybe the Friendly Humanist Christians could produce that one! (It is so exciting to hear that half of our membership worked for a printer!)
Comment by: Julie Marie
20well, that would certainly be a conversation starter.
Comment by: Eliza
21I can see it now - you guys, or Jim, can wear this T-shirt next time you’re interviewed by Kirk and Ray! :)
The Friendly Humanist Christians might well find a market for “Convert/strikeout Love thy Neighbor” T-shirts in surprising places. I’d be delighted to wear one!
Comment by: jim
22Do I have your permission to make these T Shirts if I give you one
Comment by: Eliza
23Jim - you most certainly do (have permission). I’d love one. (Maybe you are thinking of putting Off The Map’s name, logo, website on it, too?)
Cruising the internet - here’s another not-so-offensive one: “Actions speak louder than bumperstickers” (or “…T-shirts”).
And, from the website of Ebenezer Evangelical Church (in Bristol, England) comes this top ten list:
(Kind of related to my wondering, what should I think when I see a fish emblem. Like “Baby on Board” - does it mean I should try extra hard not to hit them? :) )
Comment by: Julie Marie
24haha. I’ve wondered that about the baby on board thing too. and i don’t think we’re the only ones. have you seen the ‘brat in trunk’ stickers?
Comment by: jim
25Eliza
That top ten list will be circulated soon as well
Comment by: Eliza
26Julie Marie’s friend Stephanie gave this definition for love on the “Ending the Culture Wars” thread:
That’s a great sentiment.
On the idea that came up yesterday (”Convert/strikeout Love Thy Neighbor”), that first word could be instead “Save/strikeout Love Thy Neighbor” - I wonder if the word “Convert” speaks more to non-Cs or non-ECs and the word “Save” more to ECs? (I don’t know…it does to me. “Save Thy Neighbor” means less to me than “Save the Whales” does.)
So, I came across here yesterday as interested but kind of turned off about bumper stickers. I spent last night ordering a bunch (!) of bumper stickers from northernsun.com ($1.75-$2 each, dropping to $1.00 each if you order several) and also some magnetic and plastic strips, as ways to display the stickers without the message being permanent. I tried to stick with “I” or inclusive statements and thoughtful-or-funny-not-mean stickers, and far away from anything that looked “in your face”, but of course the message is in the eye of the beholder. I’m thinking this will be fun to play around with!
Comment by: Julie Marie
27save/strikeout love thy neighbor definitely strikes home for this former EC.
thats funny that you went and bought a bunch of slogans, Eliza. What a difference a day can make ;) Now your fellow commuters can know what your sentiment of the day is.
Comment by: Eliza
28One of them, which will be more appropriate after I start displaying bumper stickers while at the drive-through at my son’s school, is: “I embarass my offspring” :)
Comment by: Pam Hogeweide
29In Joel Kilpatrick’s hilarious book, A Field Guide to Evangelicals and Their Habitat, he has this to say about identifying evangelicals on the roadways:
For evangelicals, an undecorated bumper is a sin for which God will hold them accountable the moment they walk into heaven. A car is not just a car - it’s prime advertising space, given by God for the conversion of other drivers…
Perhaps while a nonbeliever is idling at a red light in a moment of personal crisis, he or she will view the “No God, no peace, KNOW GOD KNOW peace” bumper sticker and experience a Pauline epiphany. Perhaps that “Life is fragile, handle with prayer” sticker you see on the car ahead of you in the drive-thru will provide a final spiritual nudge, leadsing you to pull into your gargage, weep, and surrender your life to Christ.”
Well said Joel.
(his book and website are hysterical. my husband and i have roared outloud reading his guide. The section on “Identifying Evangelicals in the field” was side-splitting. Jim, I know you would love it!)
Comment by: KSG
30I know I’m late to this thread but…
Here’s a link to a site dedicated to stupid church signs (you can even make your own)
And my favorite bumper sticker, “Jesus loves you but the rest of us think you’re an asshole”.
Comment by: KSG
31Okay oops, I screwed that up…
Here’s the link
Comment by: KSG
32Alright, last try… if I mess it up just click the green text in my 1st post.
http://www.churchsigngenerator.com/churchsigns.php
Comment by: Eliza
33KSG - thanks for the church sign link!
Here are some that caught my eye:
(This one was on a church at the start of the Iraq invasion)
Go Bush, Go Praise The Lord, Pass the Ammo
For God’s Sake, Falwell, Leave the Teletubbies Alone
(I thought these were creative, not that I agree)
Stop, Drop, & Roll Does Not Work In Hell
To Preven Sinburn, Use Sonscreen
(I liked these - thought- and smile-provoking)
What is Missing From Ch rch?
Ask Us About Our Vow of Silence
Forgive Your Enemies - It Messes With Their Minds
Sign Broke, Message Inside
Comment by: Eliza
34Pam, thanks for that tip & link - the cover and the “who’s going to hell” table in the first few pages of the book on amazon.com are funny - that’s all they had online.
Comment by: Justin
35Another latecomer, I know. I have a t-shirt with a very toungue in cheek slogan on the front that has garnered many different responses, both vocal and visual. It says, “They’ll know we are Christians by out t-shirts.” It seems that wearable advertising is the alternative of choice to actually loving others.
Comment by: Helen M.
36Justin, thanks for your comment. That’s an interesting T-shirt slogan!
Loving others is hard work, I guess - much harder than wearing a T-shirt.
Comment by: Jim
37The title of this discussion caught my attention when I recieved the Off Map e-mail earlier this week. I am a pastor and I resonate with many of the comments about the t-shirt and bumper sticker ‘presentation’ of Christianity. I have never been one to wear them or post them. (I almost bought one many years ago that said, ‘I hate bumper stickers.’)
This discussion has revised my desire to preach a sermon ‘The Dangers of a Bumper Sticker Faith’ that I have wanted to preach for quite sometime
Comment by: Helen M.
38Thanks for your response, Jim! Welcome to CatE. I’m glad you found this discussion through the e-zine.
If you preach that sermon and can send us a link/mp3/text file of your sermon, we’ll link to it from this discussion. That would be neat - I’d love to read/hear what you say!
Comment by: Rachel
39One of my favorite bumper stickers that I’ve spotted is “When Jesus said to love our enemies, I don’t think he meant that we should kill them.” The only things I have on my car are a license plate frame from the Blood Bank and a magnet with a cross & ribbon around it that says “Support Peace.” I don’t like to use my car to broadcast messages and I don’t want to alienate people before we can even meet or dialogue. I had a hard time deciding to even put the ribbon magnet on.
On the issue of bumper stickers offending people… A friend of mine who is pro-choice and has experienced abortion told me that every time she sees an anti-abortion bumper sticker, it is deeply hurtful. She said, “Do they want to cause me pain? Do they want to continually remind me of the worst moment of my life?”
I also have a T-shirt that says “Who would Jesus bomb?” but I’ll only wear it certain places, definitely not to my church. I go to a pretty conservative church and I’m already known in my Sunday School class as the bleeding-heart leftie. If I wore the T-shirt to church, it would just piss people off and I’d lose my voice and influence in the group.
Comment by: Rachel
40And we need that, Jim! Growing up in the conservative, fundamentalist church, I basically learned that we are supposed to be “Jerks for Jesus.” That’s what it means to “not be ashamed of the Gospel.” It’s actually a pretty nice set-up. If somebody doesn’t like what I say or do, I don’t have to take any personal responsibility for it. I don’t have to ask myself if I was being an ass. No, I can smugly reassure myself that I am being “persecuted for my faith.” It’s not me they don’t like, it’s Jesus. I can simply shake the dust off my feet and walk away with a self-satisfied feeling of martyrdom. And if everybody can’t stand me, then that must mean that I am a “prophet” - after all, prophets have always been persecuted.
Comment by: Helen M.
41Hi Rachel, welcome to CatE! Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
I wrote a while ago about how some groups have an ROAA = ‘range of acceptable answers’. Evidently your church has an ROAC - ‘range of acceptable clothing’ which doesn’t include T-shirts promoting bleeding-heart lefty-ism :)
I reposted #40 as its own blog entry:
Jerks for Jesus
Comment by: Maureen M
42On the subject of bumper stickers… There is a car parked regularly at my children’s school that displays this sticker: He’s your God, they’re your rules, you burn in hell. I am a christian and my first response was, What the heck is that?? After much thought and prayer about the Mom (i’ve met her) I so much want to LISTEN to what she has to say. I will also apologize to her for whatever has happened that has caused her to be so angry.
Maureen M
Comment by: Eliza
43Maureen, welcome and thanks for your comments! As an atheist, my interpretation (translation) of the bumper sticker you mentioned is something like this: “It’s your game, I’m not playing, don’t tell me I’ve lost.” As in: “Keep your rules - they don’t apply to me.”
I don’t see it as an angry statement, necessarily - just a frustrated one, a way of saying “I don’t agree with the premise, I don’t want to hear about the consequences you say will happen.”
The message on the bumper sticker is brusque and clipped - that goes along with it being on a bumper sticker, has to fit and be quickly readable (if not quickly understood!). It probably didn’t have to use “you”, could have just said “not my” - that would have been less offensive. But, it could have ended with “go to hell” instead of “burn in hell” and that would have been an insult, the way the former phrase is used in secular speech.
You may find, if you do ask her about it, that she doesn’t really want to talk about it. She may not want to get into a discussion about religion with a Christian, fearing (1) she may insult someone’s beliefs, or (2) it may turn into an evangelizing session to “save” her. And probably the latter would feed right back into the sentiment that led her to put that bumper sticker on her car!
Comment by: Helen M.
44Hi Maureen,
Wow, that’s neat that you want to listen to the other Mom.
I’d suggest (and I think I’m coming from a similar direction to Eliza) - DON’T say anything about religion - just ‘be a listening friend’. In a natural way. Listen to her talk about other topics. Find out what the two of you have in common.
If you do that you’ll probably get to know her well enough that she’ll share her own story with you. If she’s had personal bad experiences with church people you can be sympathetic.
If you go quickly to the subject - even with an apology - she’s likely to think this is just the latest evangelism strategy i.e. apologize first then tell them they’re going to hell. She’s likely to misconstrue your motives and the relationship won’t even get off the ground.
I might be wrong…this is just my opinion.
Comment by: Julie Marie
45I saw one of those “veiled meaness” t-shirts on a friend of mine last week.
Across the largest part of her chest:
JESUS - HE’S NOT FOR EVERYONE
then under that, sort of obscured by its placement below the chest, in smaller letters
(just kidding).
This friend isn’t mean - she thinks she’s being clever and making an opening to discuss.