Posted by Helen on: 07.27.2006 /
Hello Atheists and Christians:
I grant both the Title Case.
Speaking of title cases, the book currently titled Jim and Casper Go to
Church is now in the “crap! We gotta get all this writing done immediately!!
We’ll never make our initial manuscript date! Oh My God! (Jim) Oh My
Non-God! (Casper*) We’re doomed!” phase.
* A tough part of being an atheist: you have to find other exclamations.
But—to whet the appetites of those that think they can stomach this
(currently crude) text in which an Atheist and a Christian visit some of the
biggest and the smallest, most superficial and most “real,” most alienating
and most affecting churches in America—here is an update. (Rest assured that
the book comprises much smaller sentences with less intrusive punctuation
and whatnot.)
Jim and I are done going to churches. We’ve been to 15 churches in about a
month (usually we’d hit around three per weekend). And I am sad it’s over.
Traveling with Jim and going to church in Chicago, Los Angeles, Dallas,
Houston, Portland, Seattle, Orange County, and San Diego has been an
enlightening experience.
Not enlightening in any “seen the enLIGHTening” sense, but because it gave
me a chance to articulate my thoughts on something I hadn’t really thought
about much: God, faith, church, Jesus, and religion. (Hadn’t thought much
about those things, because if you’re REALLY an Atheist, why would you?
Would someone who doesn’t believe in Star Trek think or talk about Star
Trek? Probably not.)
And Helen—our fearless moderator—has asked me did I “get anything good out of [the church visits]?” The answer is a resounding yes. I have learned a TON. I learned that…
And there is so much more. Jim and I have written about 30,000 words, and have logged about 15,000 miles by plane and by car. We have learned a lot about each other (e.g., Jim likes spaghetti and meatballs; Matt likes even
his salads deep fried). And we are gonna have a heckuva book soon.
More later, as always…
Matt Casper
Comment by: Pam Hogeweide
1 07/27/06 6:51 AM | Comment Link |when you visited The Bridge in Portland I noticed you, but that’s because those of us who know Jim were surprised he was there.
During the “call to worship” I was a bit distracted, knowing you guys were back there, “observing.” Then it dawned on me: I could observe you observing our church.
So I got up, with notebook and pen in hand, and walked to the back of the room where I took some notes as you took your notes. I’m sure your notes are far more interesting than my notes.
I don’t know if or when I’ll write anything from my observations. I doubt I could get write a book on observiing an atheistic and Christian author doing research in the field. Maybe an article…:-)
(good luck with your book. can’t wait. when’s the forecasted release date?)
Comment by: Rachel
2 07/27/06 7:21 AM | Comment Link |Ain’t that the truth!
Matt, what differences did you observe between the churches that were very Jesus-focused and those that were not? Or do we have to wait for the book? (grin)
I have been thinking about this lately and talking about it with a friend of mine who is a seminary student. She draws a contrast between Jesus-centered faith and Bible-centered faith.
Comment by: Julie Marie
3 07/27/06 7:28 AM | Comment Link |Oh my! I hadn’t made the differentiation in my mind yet, but I had noticed that the tone of the christian blogs I read that keep hammerring away about scripture is decidely different than the tone of OTMs famliy of blogs.
Comment by: Eliza
4 07/27/06 12:05 PM | Comment Link |“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Bible that whoever believes in it shall not perish…”
Comment by: Julie Marie
5 07/27/06 1:11 PM | Comment Link |lol Eliza
Comment by: Helen M.
6 07/27/06 2:54 PM | Comment Link |Rachel wrote:
Interesting :)
I posted it as a new blog entry:
Jesus-centered vs Bible-centered faith
Hey everyone, let’s discuss it there and keep this comments section focused on Matt’s comments. Thanks!
Comment by: Eliza
7 07/27/06 3:27 PM | Comment Link |I’m interested in hearing more about your “money” observations, if there’s anything you’d care to tell us that doesn’t have to wait for publication.
Visiting 15 churches, have you been contributing to the offering plate at each one, or some, or none? Are you each giving, or deciding whether or not to give, or is it a mutual decision?
Or, are you dropping in a memory stick as a donation, so they can remember you laptoppers-sitting-in-the-back (if they noticed you) ;) ?
Comment by: ncxian
8 07/27/06 3:36 PM | Comment Link |If I were to see a complete stranger taking notes on a laptop in a service, I might would imagine him to be a building inspector or something, and I wouldn’t want to interfere with his work.
Or I might think he was a reporter of some kind, and I wouldn’t want to be quoted!
(These are an introvert’s imaginings about a stranger–which gives me permission not to start up a conversation! I’m sure extroverts have a whole other range of imaginings that give them permission to start a conversation!)
But I am pretty confident that I would have noticed–and I bet that the people in the churches you went to did as well.
Comment by: ncxian
9 07/27/06 3:55 PM | Comment Link |If you get a good explanation of this in the book, I’ll buy a couple of cases to hand out to curious folks. I am sick to death of saying “Yes, I’m Baptist, but not THAT kind of Baptist”.
Comment by: Helen M.
10 07/27/06 4:04 PM | Comment Link |NCxian, I think you’re probably right about the reasons why people didn’t ask about the laptops - nevertheless if I saw someone on a laptop I think I’d ask why after the service, out of curiosity.
I don’t see what the risk is - I don’t have to say anything I wouldn’t want quoted, if I think the person is a reporter.
Comment by: ncxian
11 07/27/06 4:05 PM | Comment Link |Helen–you’re obviously an extrovert!
Comment by: Helen M.
12 07/27/06 4:06 PM | Comment Link |I sure am!
Well, on my extrovert-y days, anyway. ;-)
Comment by: jim
13 07/27/06 10:25 PM | Comment Link |Pam you said
I say “bring it”
Comment by: Pam Hogeweide
14 07/28/06 8:29 AM | Comment Link |yo, have i been called out :-)
Comment by: Matt Casper
15 07/28/06 9:24 AM | Comment Link |Cool stuff. I didn’t give money at any church, though I was tempted at The Bridge. Luckily, Jim pulled out a handful of bills, and I could kind of nod, “yeah, him and me there…” :)
So far as Bible-based versus Jesus-based: churches that call themselves Bible-based make me uncomfortable. There’s a lot of stuff in the bible and it seems many folks will use it to do little more than justify their prejudices (Leviticus), their hunger for money (Exodus?), and their apathy toward human suffering (John 3:16 ahh… that’s all I have to do! Believe, and I get to live FOREVER. Nothing else: Just believe!).
One impression I got from more than a few churches was that the pastor had made up his mind (yes: HIS mind…another problem) what he wanted to say, and then did a keyword search in the bible to justify it. That’s known as “cherry picking the evidence.”
And if I were a churchgoer who truly believed in a loving God, an afterlife, and growing my church community, I would approach everyone I hadn’t seen before in “my church” and welcome them with open arms (WWJD?), whether or not they have laptops.
But that’s just my style…
Comment by: Helen M.
16 07/28/06 9:54 AM | Comment Link |Matt wrote:
Mine too, Matt. And just to be clear I don’t do it with an agenda to try to make people stay, or anything like that. I just like meeting people.
Anyway I have a certificate somewhere to prove it - years ago my MOPS (mothers of preschoolers group) gave me a certificate for ‘welcoming the most new people’.
One of the ironies about visitors is, guess what? They are some of the friendliest people at the church! They are feeling uncomfortable because everything is unfamiliar and they’re so grateful for you talking to them that they are super-friendly. Unlike people who’ve been there a while, they aren’t looking around to see whether the person they really want to talk to instead of you is there, nor are they already deep in conversation with that person, because they don’t know anyone yet.
I guess I shouldn’t generalize because some visitors might rather not have attention paid to them. But - no biggie - it becomes clear very quickly who wants to be talked to and who doesn’t. And the people who want to, really want to, so it can be a lot of fun (or so I’ve found).
Comment by: ncxian
17 07/28/06 12:58 PM | Comment Link |I think Jim is rubbing off on you, Matt!