Posted by Helen on: 08.29.2006 /
I looked at last week’s local newspaper when we got back late yesterday, not expecting anything more in connection with my article. In fact I found a second response from Rev. Lueking to me. Here’s how our exchange has gone so far:
Me: Why I don’t go to church anymore
Rev. Lueking: Going to church anyway … and why
Me: Thank you, Rev. Lueking for your kind, humble response
Rev. Lueking: Mildenhall asks big questions, in the right spirit
Comment by: Rachel
1 08/29/06 5:13 PM | Comment Link |Rev. Lueking seems like a very sweet and humble man. I especially enjoyed his story about visiting the woman in the hospital! I assume from his title of “Pastor Emeritus” that he is an older man. I’ve noticed that people seem to go one of two ways as they get older - they get crotchety and more set in their ways or they get sweeter and more open to others. Rev. Lueking seems to be in the second group. My Gramps was too.
Comment by: Julie Marie
2 08/29/06 7:46 PM | Comment Link |nice response. I like that man better and better.
Comment by: Pam Sardar
3 08/29/06 11:34 PM | Comment Link |It seems to me that we have made church and its institution so complex when Jesus made it so simple. I love the verses in Acts 2 that talk about the early church. “They steadfastly persevered, devoting themselves constantly to the instruction and fellowship of the apostles, to the breaking of bread (including communion), and prayers.” Later it says that they shared their resources and they ate their food with gladness, simplicity and generous hearts.”
What a beautiful picture of what I would like to see church be!
Comment by: Helen
4 08/30/06 3:37 AM | Comment Link |Rachel and Julie - I agree. Here’s an article about Rev. Lueking in this week’s newspaper, which has photos of him, so you can see about how old he is:
His mission is tourism
Pam - yes, indeed. If church was mostly about sharing our lives with each other I’d probably still be there.
Comment by: Rachel
5 08/30/06 4:18 PM | Comment Link |I love that article! I think it is so cool that he is listening to the stories of others - we Americans need to do more of that. I’ll be interested in reading his book when it comes out.
Comment by: Julie MArie
6 08/31/06 7:29 AM | Comment Link |grat article. I”ll buy the book too.
Comment by: Mike O
7 09/1/06 8:08 AM | Comment Link |Helen said:
Pam - yes, indeed. If church was mostly about sharing our lives with each other I’d probably still be there.
A lot of them are now. Lots of churches are doing group-style meetings. They still have their main sunday morning services, but if you find a church with a good group structure, you can find the community you’re looking for in those groups.
I wonder if Rev. Lueking’s church would have something? Judging from the picture, I’d guess his church is very liturgical and not the cutting edge sort you probably would do well with. But there are a LOT of good churches out there.
Many (if they’re any good IMO) will be more than happy to let you be in a group without going to the sunday services. They might look at you as a bit of an outsider, but would that be so inaccurate?
Comment by: Helen
8 09/1/06 11:17 AM | Comment Link |Mike O wrote:
Well - not necessarily. Because I’d be looking for a SAFE community. And in my experience, church communities are not especially good at being safe communities.
You’re right that it’s quite liturgical (it’s actually his ‘ex’ church - he’s now retired).
Traditional can be safer than cutting-edge, so it might not be the case that cutting-edge is what I’d do well with. Cutting-edge often hasn’t had time for the rough edges to get worn down. And I don’t have the emotional energy to be the instrument on which they get worn down.
Fair enough. I expect you’re right - in fact the church I most recently belonged to had a variety of attendance patterns and as best I’m aware, no-one made an issue of it.
But even if a group let me go to some meetings and not others and were happy to have me there, I would only go if in my judgment it was a good use of my time.
(That does tie in with my earlier comment, because in my judgment it’s not a good use of my time to put myself in unsafe situations unless there is likelihood of a payoff so great that it becomes worth taking the risk)
Comment by: Rick Cruse
9 09/6/06 1:19 AM | Comment Link |My wife and I are experiencing some of the same things you express here. The only major differences are (a) I am a ‘professional Christian,’ i.e., vocational/paid Christian, and (b) I am still actively pursuing after God through my own personal spiritual disciplines. However, we have stopped attending a local church. This is challenging as I work for an organization which seeks to work alongside and strengthen national churches around the world! We are looking for some other like-minded people who simply want to obey the challenge to ‘…pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace with all those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.’
Two interesting books: ‘So You Don’t Want to Go to Church Anymore,’ a novel-ette (available as a downloadable pdf file) by Jake Colsen. His thesis is that followers of Jesus do not necessarily need any programmatic or building-based meeting to grow and have influence. ‘Churchless Faith’ by Alan Jamieson. This began as his doctoral dissertation using churches largely in New Zealand and Australia. He discovered that many of the people who leave the evangelical/ pentecostal/ charismatic churches (EPC), do not do so because they have lost their faith. No, those who leave do so most often because they want to preserve and grow their faith, but in a context where it is safe to ask difficult questions. Jamieson’s research shows that, after a period of transition, most ‘church leavers’ find themselves back in some sort of vital faith community.
Comment by: Helen
10 09/6/06 4:16 AM | Comment Link |Thanks Rick.
I’m reading Revolution by George Barna (maybe you’ve read it) which talks about followers of Jesus leaving church because they seem able to follow him better outside church.
You might be interested in what I just posted:
Changing Faith (and its impact)
The author of the blog entry I quoted from also comments on how church is not necessarily turning out to be every Jesus-follower’s best route to living out what Jesus calls them to be and do.
Comment by: Mike O
11 09/6/06 10:18 AM | Comment Link |I also read Revolution and loved it. I agree that you don’t need church or organized ‘religion’ to be a devoted Christ follower. But I do think there is significant value there that you are missing by removing yourself from the body. Unless, of course, you are involved in some other Christian group setting. You need a body. But with that said, I loved Revolution and the point that it makes, that if the church refuses to see what’s happening in culture, it will become less and less effective.
Comment by: Helen
12 09/6/06 10:41 AM | Comment Link |Mike, I agree that ‘going it alone’ is not a good idea. I think Revolution is saying “alternative Christian communities to church can work very well for some followers of Jesus” rather than “going it alone is a good idea’.
Comment by: Mike O
13 09/6/06 12:46 PM | Comment Link |That’s right. My son, Zack, is the one who first opened my eyes to the potential uselessness of church, and that there must be other (better?) ways to go about this whole ‘relationship with God’ thing.
My take on it is, fix the church, not abandon it. But the more time I spend out here, the more I understand why people are abandoning it. And that’s what I’m bringing back to the church … a desire to ‘right the ship.’