Posted by Helen on: 09.19.2006 /
| This was my son’s science homework yesterday (he’s in eighth grade). He was given a list of attributes to cut up and stick under either “Science is…” or “Science is not…”. (Click on it for a larger version)
In class they were put into small groups to fill out a worksheet about what can be tested scientifically. My son and another student were saying God couldn’t be tested scientifically. Someone else in their group said to a member of another group “Hey, there are some people over here who don’t believe in God!” He said “That’s not my life. They’re going to burn in hell!” |
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Comment by: JUlie Marie
1I like what your son had to say about what science is and is not.
How did the teacher respond to this exchange of words between the two groups (assuming she heard it)? Did she take the opportunity to say science really has nothing to say about God? That faith is just that - faith - if one could prove God then one wouldn’t require faith? Have the students that think saying God isn’t scientifically testable see if they can come up with a way to test for God? How did your son react to the exchange?
I think this would be such a teaching moment. Of course, thats easy for me to say - I’m not the teacher who migh lose her job if she threatens someones belief system just a bit too much.
Comment by: Ben
2Hi
The teacher didn’t hear the exchange but we did discuss the worksheet later. Then, later, the same person that insisted that God was able to be studied by science also insisted to the teacher that angels could be part of science (we had had trouble with this when discussing in our group too, saying that she had seen an angel and sight can be used to study something). The teacher replied that angels weren’t part of the natural word, they were supernatural (part of 6 “scientific rules” we had gone over before: something must be consistent, observable, natural, predictable, testable, and tentative to be part of science). The other person said that “Well the other people in my group don’t believe in God so they can’t see an angel! It’s like santa claus, you can’t see him unless you believe in him.” There was a bit of an argument about souls too. Angels and souls both ended up being marked on the board as being not part of science though.
I’ll just have to wait and see the reactions today when we discuss if God is scientific or not with the whole class.
Comment by: Helen
3Julie, Marie, when Ben told me about the class yesterday he seemed amused and not upset.
He clearly understands the difference between “God cannot be proven scientifically” and “I don’t believe in God”.
Where we live, parents tend to speak up if they have a complaint. I imagine the teacher is as likely to hear from parents objecting that she is ‘pushing God too much in a public school’ as from parents objecting that she is inappropriately denying God, if parents perceive she is conveying an inappropriate bias.
A couple of years ago a parent complained because the student planners given to every student, which had ‘character-building’ information in, inappropriately promoted Christianity. In fact, the planner was published by a Christian organization and this was not their ‘planner for Christians’ but inadvertently it had one page in from their ‘planner for Christians’ which had Bible verses on. It might have been inappropriate anyway (I think it probably was) but that erroneously included page meant it definitely was.
So, that example just to show the sorts of things which parents pick up on. I don’t think this can be the easiest district in which to be a teacher!
Comment by: Marty
4Welcome Ben - thanks for sharing with us your experience. It looks to me that you have a good understanding of what is and is not science - and a mature/wise approach to thinking about things.
I was wondering about your choice that science is not “fair”. I think I would have said the science is fair. What do you think is unfair about science?
I hope you will report back on your experience on this subject in school today.
Comment by: Eliza
5Ben, thanks for telling us about the discussion in class, & letting us see your homework!
I’ll be interested to hear what discussion occurs today. Sounds like the discussion in class could be very interesting, but also could easily make someone upset (student, or parents!).
Also, could you tell me how what you’ve heard it means to say that “tentative” is one of the features of science? I hadn’t heard this before (or at least not using that word) - seems to me that could imply to some people that science is on shaky ground. (Seems like some other scientists agree - I found this paper by a physicist, who presents several different understandings of “tentative” by students.)
Have fun in class today!
Comment by: Eliza
6Helen, my guess is that it’s hard to be a teacher anywhere in the US today, though perhaps especially so in some districts! I’ve heard story after story from my sister-in-law, brother-in-law, and mother-in-law, all teachers, about some interactions they’ve had with parents. (My son’s teacher seems very nervous when she’s talking to a group of parents - after hearing all of those stories from my in-laws, I can understand why!)
It’ll be interesting to hear whether there are any comments from parents, & how the teacher handles them.
Comment by: Friendly Atheist » Science Homework
7 09/19/06 5:31 PM | Comment Link |[...] Over at Conversation at the Edge, 8th grader Ben had a wonderful homework assignment: Cut out short phrases and paste them under the categories of Science Is… or Science Is Not… [...]
Comment by: Helen
8Update: in class today they went over the homework. Apparently Ben got a few wrong. The teacher said:
Comment by: Jesse
9I’m glad the teacher is pointing out the limitations of empiricism. It’s good to see the implication that real=science therefore non-science=unreal being corrected.
Comment by: David H
10I might want to correct: Science is based on observable evidence. The bias from the human standpoint isn’t necessarily chosen, it is because we are limited to what we are able to observe, hence the ongoing efforts to prove so many old theories. We improve our means of observation, then we gain a little more evidence to “prove” a theory.
Because people are limited, science is limited.
Comment by: Paul
11I liked the homework too - why did we do nothing fun like this when I was at school (ok we probably did but i just thought it sucked at the time)…
As I blogged here by own view is that science and religion in their own perspectives are 2 windows to view God (if you believe in him) or the mystery and amazement of life if you believe that this is all we got… regardless of our beliefs I welcome good science and good faith as making a positive contribution to my world…
I can empathise with the kid too who was busy lobbying for God - i have stood in those shoes and all i can say is that sometimes the learning cuver is short n sharp othertimes its blunt n long - me i’m from the latter school :)
Comment by: Julie Marie
12I’ve appreciated your humor for a little while now, Paul, and thought I’d let you know. :)
re: the learning curve - I’ve experienced both kinds. Short n sharp is more painful, but its over quicker….
Comment by: Helen
13Paul wrote:
Funny…Hemant pretty much said the same thing! (Look at the last line of his blog entry)
Paul and Julie Marie re: the learning curve - I hear ya ;-)
Comment by: Rachel
14I hear you, Paul. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I wish that as a teenager, I had understood how to have respectful dialogue with people about matters of faith. I wish I had been taught how to just have real relationships with people and listen and learn and share and discuss, not try to market my product or “not be ashamed of the gospel” ie. be an arrogant, dogmatic jerk. I remember getting into a debate with one of my atheist classmates (ironically named Jacob David Bible) and feeling so threatened and like I had to try to persuade him. I wish I could do that relationship over again. As Bono always says, “I don’t want to be a used car salesman for God.”
Comment by: Paul
15Julie, thanks for the humour appreciation :) Ah yes short n sharp, usually when i hit a blind bend on a steep cliff way too fast… heh if you’re gonna flame do so in style ;)
Helen - re Hemant’s similar refrain, all i can say is great minds thinks alike :)
Rachel - you and me both - still comes in handy when i catch myself being an arrogant dogmatic jerk - do I really want to relive my teen yrs that badly?! Annoyingly though i still get spots and I’m like 31 - what’s that about???
Comment by: Paul
16hmmm maybe it’s divine retribution for my teenage yrs lol :)