Posted by Helen on: 10.06.2006 /
In comment #6 of “When not seeing is believing” Paul wrote (emphasis mine):
Fundamentalism in the sense the article uses it is based on a fear that pulls us into a polarised world of are with us or against us. What we need instead is to know/learn how to lovingly coexist, something I explored recently here when I was stunned by how so many faiths have the golden rule at the heart of their teachings (the golden rule = do to others what you would want done to you).
What as christians are we so scared of? As a christian I feel that we have a message of love, hope, compassion and practical care - that faith compels me to love my neighbour, not hate him.. it commands me to serve the poor, the broken, the hurting and not worry about whether they’ll sign up to my belief statement. It asks me to live in a way that is about giving not getting, about laying down my rights not demanding that my ways get done…
The point of it all is that I cannot do any of that on my own, it is too huge and my selfishness too great, it’s why I believe in and follow Jesus as my model/mentor/maker.
I know i can not do that perfectly and will always struggle against my desire to self determine against myself but If i cannot at least try to live out what I believe, to embrace a life of loving about how to love through loving - then why should I expect anyone else to want to have anything to do with the God i claim to represent?
Comment by: David H
1The following is an excerpt from Richard Rohr’s book Everything Belongs: The Gift of Contemplative Prayer. Hope people don’t get sick of my posting these, but he seems to address many contemporary issues very early on.
What are Christians so scared of? That people will bring down or infiltrate the unholy boundaries we have created that to many have become the sum-total of their faith.
If Christianity is real, then it should be open doors and wide-open windows (if it is to have an enclosure at all). Instead it is becomming, at least for many in this country, like deep moats and high walls with just a tad of razor-wire and glass on top to deter the overly motivated.
Comment by: Marty
2Paul - I really like what you wrote as a message to fellow Christians - and I appreciate how real this is for you. I think that you are right on relative to the manifestations of what we as Christians are to be. If we are not those things - I don’t know why what we believe would ever be listened to or trusted by those who do not believe.
At the same time, I have been thinking about what you wrote from the non-believers perspective - particularly as I have gotten to know many very special non-believers on this board. I may well have written much like you wrote before my experience here. What I have learned is that there are many non-believers who manifest compassion, caring, giving, listening, supporting, forgiveness, etc every bit as well as those who label themselves Christian.
I hope that we will listen to and support those who are making the world a better place and respect and encourage them - whether what motivates them is their belief in Christ or whether there is just something within them that motivates them to be loving and kind.
Comment by: Paul
3Helen, I am honoured that you are breaking friday tradition and putting me up against “Dubya” in the comedy stakes - I know who I am backing :)
Marty thank you for your gracious words with which I heartedly and unreservedly concur. I apologise to anyone who was offended by my comments, it certainly was not my intention to. To clarify I do not believe that any one system of belief has a monopoly on doing good things to make the world a better place, whether you believe in no/one/many Gods (indeed as a christian there are many things that people have done and still do in the name of Christ which i think make the world a far worst place - so I am certainly not trying to talk down to anyone from any sort of moral high ground).
As ever context is important consideration and my comments were made in response to a post about fundamentatlism, including christian fundamentalism and was responding therefore an adherent to that faith with a heart felt longing that we stuck to the main teachings of my particular belief rather than a dangerous are you in/out mentality.
It also leads me to pose a question to the readers here who chose to belief in no God. I wonder please if you could tell me your own individual thinking on the golden rule i.e. ‘doing to others what you would have done to you’ which is found in so many other belief systems? I wonder if this might well be common ground that we can build upon in adressing the concerns of the article and learn to coexist rather then descend further into hostile polarity?
Comment by: Marty
4Paul - thank you for your clarification. I also liked your commment about “a dangerous are you in/out mentality.”
I think that the golden rule could use an update that would make it an even higher ideal. I believe it is a higher ideal if we —- do unto others as they would have done unto them.
Comment by: Paul
5Ah the platinium rule :)
Comment by: Helen
6I’m confident you’ll hold up well, Paul - you have a great sense of humor!
Sorry if I took your comments out of context and in doing so, implied to Marty that you lacked awareness of how kind and compassionate people who aren’t Christians can be.
Marty, I’ve heard that update on the golden rule from atheists, who were pointing out that the golden rule isn’t necessarily the final word on how to treat others. I like the update also. “The platinum rule” - LOL Paul :)
Comment by: Rachel
7Well said, David!
Comment by: Benjamin Ady
8What are we as Christians so scared off? I’m suspecting that we as Christians are more or less scared of the same things that we as people are scared of. Whatever that may be. Dr. Allender (president of Mars Hill Graduate School, which is one of the hosts of Revolution Conference says men are afraid we are not enough, and women are afraid they are too much. (ok, this is my memory of what he said, and my memory isn’t that great–that was the gist I got of it, but I don’t want Dr. Allender to be blamed if I’m misquoting him here)
Comment by: Paul
9No worries Helen, I appreciated the chance to put right any unintentional bias in my comments and take a few moments to admire the good that so many people do to make this world and indeed my own a better place… not least the richness of kindness and conversation here…
Comment by: Pete
10I’ve never liked the way the golden rule was portrayed (mostly from things like my cousin from Texas forcing country music on me because that’s what he’d like me to do to him–that’s a bit tongue in cheek but I think you see the point).
On the other hand, I’m not a big fan of the “platinum rule” either because I’m pretty sure my 5 year old would have me give him candy all day and that my friend who was suicidal would like me to just kill her so she can be done with it all. Neither of those are good options regardless of how the subjects feel about it.
What I think the golden rule is trying to assert more than anything is that we should be humble. Pride is at some point the beginning of all sins–because we decide what we want (and by extension ourself) is more important than anyone else, even God is we believe in him.
The message of the golden rule to me always said, “You are not the only nor the most important person in the world. Keep that in mind and act accordingly.”
It’s become one of the core truths we believe are important in my church, “I am the least of those around me. not because I lack value, but because I choose to put others ahead of me.” I think Jesus modeled this fabulously. Just imagine if everyone in the world behaved as if their needs and conerns were last on the list. We’d stumble over oursleves trying to make others happy–and in the process would be happier as a whole.
Ah but for wishful thinking…