Posted by Helen on: 10.11.2006 /
In comment #68 of Class #1 David H posted the following insightful comments.
I think [super-imposing 'belief' over 'Christ' as a foundation for the Christian faith] is a far-too-common “Christian” practice. Were you to read a denominational doctrine statement you might be able to compile a point-by-point list of other examples. Even biblioatry — worship of the Bible — has become a huge American Christian phenomena.
Obviously it occurs, the bigger question is why? I have a few thoughts on that.
However, as anyone who has read the Bible knows, the 10 commandments wasn’t the end of the story about the law. Leviticus and Deuteronomy are filled with exegesis on how to practice the law on a daily basis. The rest of the Old Testament is full of stories about the inventive ways people found to violate those principles. Jewish writing is also replete with thousands of books providing commentary and recommendation on how to folow those laws. And the Pharisees, made famous by Jesus, were a Jewish sect that based their entire belief system on how exactly to practice those laws.
We live in an advanced physics world, but that doesn’t stop some supposedly Christian leaders from teaching simple math and for many supposed believers from adopting that as their entire faith. They ignore that that isn’t Christ-like. Jesus didn’t need numerous books to explain the law and its practice, he needed two sentences.
As someone who grew up in a fundamental church background, I can remember being taught that all of the answers could be found in the life of Jesus. So all I needed to do was study his life (from the four gospels) and then apply the choices he made to the choices I faced in life. But somehow that got translated to a list of do’s and don’ts, not to a way of approaching every individual as a unique person with unique circumstances. Heaven forbid you should ever talk to, much less have dinner, with a prostitute, unless you were evangelizing them (i.e. telling them to change or face the fires of hell). And while you could evangelize such people, they were unacceptable in your church. Forget about prostitutes, even divorced people were forbidden.
I’m sure there are loads of other why’s. These are just a few examples from my experience and background. In recent years, it has seemed to me that Christianity and life are both fairly simple (at least in terms of stated purpose and practice). The danger for both of those lies in over-complicating, as far as I’m concerned. But that may just lead people on all sides to conclude that it is actually me that is fairly simple.
Comment by: samlcarr
1 10/11/06 5:45 AM | Comment Link |I have been noticing something similar with the word ‘gospel’ for quite some time. The gospel is Jesus. But the word is variously used to talk about anything from ’some set of propositions preaching/evangelism.
Comment by: Helen
2 10/11/06 6:20 AM | Comment Link |Thanks for your comment, samlcarr. I like the name of your blog: “Challenge”!
Like you I’ve noticed the ‘gospel’ seems to mean different things to different people.
Comment by: Paul
3 10/11/06 7:04 AM | Comment Link |Very good thoughts, thank you for sharing them.
I sort of see a flow to your points which echos the christian teachings on rules (or legalism) on the one hand vs grace on the other.
Rules can be profoundly complicated or very simple but they are still the steps needed to be followed or the actions that need to be complied with. Rules make clear definitions/restrictions and of course people play with rules in terms of how far can i push this and still be in…
grace on the other hand is a freedom from rules, in the sense that none of us can ever keep them, all of us break them but the consequences for rule breaking are gone - Christians believe in this freedom/liberation that is as a result of the birth/life/death/resurection of Jesus Christ.
I love this conversation between Bono and this journalist…
The interviewer, Mr. Assayas, begins by asking Bono doesn’t he think “appalling things” happen when people become religious?
Bono: “It’s a mind-blowing concept that the God who created the Universe might be looking for company, a real relationship with people, but the thing that keeps me on my knees is the difference between Grace and Karma.”
Assayas: “What’s that?”
Bono: “At the centre of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics — in physical laws — every action is met by an equal or an opposite one.And yet, along comes this idea called Grace to upend all that…Love interrupts, if you like, the consequences of your actions, which in my case is very good news indeed, because I’ve done a lot of stupid stuff.”
Assayas: “Like what?”
Bono: “That’s between me and God. But I’d be in big trouble if Karma was going to finally be my judge. It doesn’t excuse my mistakes, but I’m holding out for Grace. I’m holding out that Jesus took my sins onto the Cross, because I know who I am, and I hope I don’t have to depend on my own religiosity.”
Assayas: “The Son of God who takes away the sins of the world. I wish I could believe in that.”
Bono: “The point of the death of Christ is that Christ took on the sins of the world, so that what we put out did not come back to us, and that our sinful nature does not reap the obvious death. It’s not our own good works that get us through the gates of Heaven.”
Assayas: “That’s a great idea, no denying it. Such great hope is wonderful, even though it’s close to lunacy, in my view. Christ has his rank among the world’s great thinkers. But Son of God isn’t that farfetched?”
Bono: “Look, the secular response to the Christ story always goes like this: He was a great prophet, obviously a very interesting guy, had a lot to say along the lines of other great prophets, be they Elijah, Muhammad, Buddha, or Confucius. But actually Christ doesn’t allow you that. He doesn’t let you off that hook. Christ says, “No. I’m not saying I’m a teacher, don’t call me teacher. I’m not saying I’m a prophet. I’m saying: ‘I’m the Messiah.’ I’m saying: ‘I am God incarnate’… So what you’re left with is either Christ was who He said He was — the Messiah — or a complete nutcase… The idea that the entire course of civilization for over half of the globe could have its fate changed and turned upside-down by a nutcase, for me that’s farfetched.”
Comment by: Julie Marie
4 10/11/06 8:15 AM | Comment Link |Hi David H,
I don’t have anything profound to add, just wanted to say I really like reading your posts here and on the other blogs. There is a gentleness in the way you express your faith that is very appealing.
Comment by: Rachel
5 10/11/06 12:46 PM | Comment Link |Thank you for that thoughtful and articulate post, David!
Comment by: David H
6 10/11/06 12:55 PM | Comment Link |Julie Marie and Rachel, thanks. I repost here something from the thread my comments came from: I have spent some time thinking about screwed up beliefs and discussing how those can affect someone’s life with paid professionals. Now I try to be honest about it in an effort not to stumble down the same path. I appreciate a forum in which there is room for discussion of these things because writing about them is often part of my thought process. I don’t know why I feel a certain way about something until I write it down. So I am grateful or both comment and criticism.
Paul, Bono is one of my hero’s of faith. A words and action man who has come through some storms I will never face (honestly, it must be hard to be faithful when you are really rich and famous and popular, the tendancy — and he admits it — is to think you are God). I read a great interview in Christianity Today online awhile back. The gist of that interview was the problem conservative Christians have with him because he eschews the term Christian. To me it obvious where his faith lies, but some want him to say some magic word so he can be one of them.
Comment by: benjamin ady
7 10/11/06 4:19 PM | Comment Link |David,
Thankyou for your beautiful embracing of and expression of “opposite things which are both true” (now what *is* the word for that? grrrr, can’t think of it. Now that is gonna drive me crazy all day)–both “We live in an advanced physics [not a simple math] world” AND “Chrisianity and life are both fairly simple”. That’s perfect, and I commend you, and thankyou. You rock!
(hmmm. starts with “a” or some other greek or latin prefix for “not” or “against” and has “non” or some other derivation of the the greek or latin for “name” in there. oh dear. this is gonna drive me crazy)
Comment by: Helen
8 10/11/06 7:05 PM | Comment Link |Benjamin, I also loved how David embraced those opposites!
Comment by: Pastor David
9 10/12/06 8:48 AM | Comment Link |Benjamin -
I believe that the word you are looking for is “paradox.”
Comment by: benjamin ady
10 10/12/06 11:26 AM | Comment Link |Nope, not “paradox”. But thanks for the try. “paradox” *is* in the title of my blog, which you can check out by clicking on my name. (I humbly beg forgiveness for shameless commericialism)
Comment by: benjamin ady
11 10/12/06 12:49 PM | Comment Link |GOT IT!! “antinomy” Yes!