Posted by Helen on: 01.03.2007 /
You’ve probably noticed this blog is sponsored by Off The Map.
I’m asking because I’m going to be talking to Off The Map’s strategy consultant tomorrow and I think he’s going to ask me these questions. So they’re on my mind :-)
You certainly don’t have to have opinions about Off The Map’s mission to participate in Conversation at the Edge. I was just curious what yours are, if you do have any.
Comment by: Keith
1Helen,
I don’t think I can answer the questions about Off The Map’s mission as it is or as it should be. But I can tell you what Off The Map has done for me. My experience at OTM has been primarily about relationships with atheists. I have come to understand some of the atheists who post here much better. I am getting to the point where I can accurately represent what an atheist would say/think/feel in response to various arguments, assertions.
Barack Obama has said that one of the best things he learned from his mother was empathy. I think that is what Off The Map is all about: empathy. This site has greatly improved my ability to experience life from the perspective of another. As a result I am more able to love my neighbor as myself and to make the world a better place. And I think that others would agree that their empathy has grown here.
I don’t know if that’s enough for a mission. But the world needs empathy as much as ever … and OTM, Jim Henderson, yourself, Siamang, and others are leading the way to a future where we empathize more than we marginilize. And that’s gotta be a better place.
Comment by: Helen
2Thanks Keith. I think you’re right - I think encouraging people to have more empathy for others is at the core of much of what Off The Map does.
Comment by: Jim Henderson
3Keith, thanks for your insights. It is very helpful to hear from our “end users”. I would be quite happyif OTM were known as propogators of empathy. I’m also inspired by and admire your willingness to be a life long learner. Thanks and keep talking to us.
Comment by: Siamang
4There’s a mind-blowing message deep inside Off The Map. It never fails to amaze me or many people when I tell them that I was asked to blog as an atheist for a christian ministry.
It’s a courageous openness. And it’s one that speaks volumes. It’s an example for Christian ministry, but it’s also an example for everyone.
My impression of Jesus (be it really my impression of him, or be it my impression of the traditional protrayal of him), is that he wasn’t the kind of person who limited the number of voices he heard, or the circle of people with whom he discoursed. He didn’t seek only people who already agreed with him.
The reason I’m here at Off-The-Map is that I recongize its’ rarity. The quality and amity of this discussion is extremely rare in our society. I haven’t noticed anything even close anywhere.
Comment by: Jim Henderson
5Siamang
You are a serious encourgement to me.
You model the openess you speak of.
I have the same impression of Jesus
Comment by: Doreen
6Mission? It’s late so I’m in bumper sticker mode.
Changing the dialog, two ears at a time
Proving Pat Robertson doesn’t speak for all Christians
Some of my best friends are atheists
Comment by: Helen
7Thanks Siamang and Doreen!
Comment by: Mike O
8Who am I to say what OTM’s mission should be?
When I first got here, I thought it was a place where Christians and non-Christians could interact without the blatant need to convert. Just talk. And the reason we would do that is to make Christ accessible to non-believers. In my mind, though, I pictured it as happening in a church … in a “Christian” environment, whatever that means. Like a typical Christian, I saw “them” being welcomed onto “our” turf. But that was almost 6 months ago. I see now that OTM is not inherrently “christian turf.” It’s neutral. And that is all well and good.
The different blogs seem to have different missions, but I’m not so sure that’s where you’re going, Helen, with your question. Off The Map as an umbrella over them all must have some overall mission.
I believe the intent of OTM is to be a Christian “thing” with the purpose of getting Christians to listen to non-Christians. But where I think it comes up short is that the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction. In an effort to get Christians to listen, OTM sometimes becomes a place where Christians are the only ones that *should* listen. If this is a “christian” site, shouldn’t there be, at some level, people listening to Christians, too? People gaining information about Christianity, Christ, God rather than just Christians morphing their beliefs to include those who don’t hold them? People wondering about Christianity rather than just questioning it? Shouldn’t it be balanced? Isn’t the Christian view as valid as the others? It doesn’t seem like it. It’s almost like the tables have turned, and now the Christians are the ones at the business end of the evangelism stick, Nobody really cares what I think - I just need to listen and learn. And maybe I’m due, but that doesn’t make it right.
Part of this comes from me being in a new environment. I’m used to being around where Christians are in the majority, and now I find myself in the minority. It’s actually very interesting. But what it feels like to me is that anything said by non-Christians welcomed, taken at face-value and swallowed whole, assuming the best intentions by the speaker - or at least understanding where they are coming from. But when Christians speak, it’s heard with an ear towards cynicism assuming the Christians somehow “don’t get it.” What Christians say here is under much stricter scrutiny than our non-Christian peers.
Part of it, too, is probably that I spend the vast majority of my time out here on eBay atheist where I really am in the minority and my views really are (should be??) questioned. But there are comments now and again from Jim that make me wonder whether or not I grasp what the point really is sometimes.
To me, the question is one of desired affect — when the idea of OTM was first conceived, what was the point? Was it to change Christians or to make Christ accessible to those who would otherwise have nothing to do with Him? I wasn’t there, but I suspect, judging from the use of the words “evangelism” and “attempt,” and from the focus on the Christian’s need to build relationships with “the ones Jesus misses most,” that the original desire was make it so Jesus doesn’t miss them any more … to make Christ accessible to “the lost.” But what I see instead is a morphing of Christ/Christianity/God to include “those He misses most” effectively requiring no change from the missing at all. And if no change is required in them to get Jesus to not miss them any more, then I wonder … what is the point then? Why is OTM even necessary if “the missing” are just fine the way they are?
Comment by: Mike O
9I just want to add one more thing … I am a HUGE fan of OTM! OTM has given me a voice I would not have otherwise had, and for that I am grateful.
I see great value here in building the Christian’s ability to understand and communicate with those who don’t see things our way. My only thing is that I think it should go both ways. In a truly friendly dialogue, we are all peers and should all get the same understanding from the opposing views.
I have brought many OTM principals back to my homies - my church-buds - and in fact, OTM is right now playing a SIGNIFICANT role in the development of my ministry among my Christian peers and our effectiveness in relating to those outside our doors. And for that, I am eternally grateful!
Comment by: Helen
10Thanks for your comments, Mike. You ask great questions.
One thought I have is: Off The Map targets Christians, not lost people. Off The Map’s mission is to change Christians - then indirectly that will affect people who aren’t Christians.
So, Off The Map challenges Christians to change while inviting people who aren’t Christians to talk to Christians and “help us change”. That is admittedly unbalanced.
Comment by: Mike O
11We’re just going through some org changes here at work, and one of the things that keeps coming up is, “know what you’re supposed to be doing.” If you understand that, then it doesn’t matter so much whether it’s a good or bad idea … at least you’re sincere and sure of your motives and intentions. And with that, you’ll get a lot better mileage from your efforts.
While I think it would be easier for Christians to change if it were a balanced playing field (just as listening to non-believers is appealing to them, so listening to Christians is appealing to us), I do understand the conflict that arises.
Comment by: JG
12I agree with Siamang.
Perhaps I’m mistaken but I don’t see a sharp distinction between “Christians” and “non Christians” at CatE, rather simply a group of people from different viewpoints and experiences sharing and discussing ideas and that is one of the things I like about it.
I also appreciate that people generally are given the freedom to express different viewpoints without being shouted down or rejected. “Reject” (in relation to views expressed) is a word that is rarely used on this site and I hope that continues to be the case.
Comment by: Jim Henderson
13Mike - Great question. I think the answer is probably that balance is not what we are looking for. OTM is into the idea that Christians have drifted so far from true listening that we could devote all of our time practicing and it would be a lisfe well spent.
Whether or not anyone reciprocates has nothing to do with the mssion I see in Jesus. He said something like this “so what if you are nice to those who agree with you - anyone can do that - what I’m asking you to do is to be nice to those who disagree with you.
So I guess in some ways this blog and the atheist blog in particular are opportunities for Cs to put into practice the words of the one we say we follow so assidously.
If OTM offers that kind fo experience for Cs I am happy whether or not atheists, agnostics or any kind of non believer ever reciprocates (which many already do)
Comment by: Siamang
14I’d like there to be a wider array of voices here, too, Mike.
I’m quite aware the at least on the Ebay Atheist discussion board, the Christians are scarce. I don’t think we’d have a hard time recruiting more atheists to join the conversation… though getting some who want to contribute to the positive tone would pose a challenge.
But getting new Christians to come and take part, I’ll admit that stumps me and I keep trying to think of ways.
Comment by: Paul
15My impression is that OTM is about helping christians have ears to listen and eyes to see how they actually are to the people they have been sent rather than how they imagine themselves to be…
it is about providing space to listen, about modelling how to engage construcitvely rather than destructively in conversation and to find ways/means to express ourselves that are normal/understandable/practical/tangible rather than cloaked in strange sounding vaguely condeming tones…
as for what it should be - i guess it’s all the things that i have missunderstood/poorly expressed in the above…
Comment by: Mike O
16Perfectly stated! As soon as I read this, I rememebered that this is what drew me to it … and when I said this back up in #9,
THIS is at the very heart of it! Helping the Christians in my circle of influence get a friggin’ clue about how we really look to outsiders and what they really think about the ways we talk, act and generally portray ourselves.
There is great value here! As Siamang said earlier, this is a rare thing!
Comment by: Mike O
17You want to hear something funny? I say the same thing, and get the same reaction from my people when I tell them I’m “the token Christian on an atheist blog.” The fact that a Christian and an atheist both see themselves as voices to a new audience speaks volumes!
Comment by: benjamin ady
18Paul–exactly. In fact, I rather suspect that hanging out around here has begun to help me shift my communication in this direction (learning by watching/listening/osmosis). I catch myself being more interested in what other people have to say, and in coming across less abrasively. (not that that is firing on more than one cylinder so far, but there’s progress!) Thankyou OTM!
Comment by: Pam Hogeweide
19From my perspective I think OTM’s mission, or purpose, is to break the religious mindset that has suffocated the beauty of Jesus in his followers. (that would be me and a bunch of you)
I think another purpose of OTM’s is to break down the religious barriers that keep followers of Christ alienated from those who do not believe the things we do. OTM is brilliantly gifted in building bridges between people. This is their best strength, in my opinion.
What should OTM’s mission be?
Um, continue to celebrate and legitimize the power of Being Ordinary. I think that in this generation we are seeing more recognition of the legitimate contributions ordinary people make on ordinary days through ordinary kindnesses and thoughtful actions. The celebrity of the Ordinary, Everyday Schlump who is a good guy, I predict, will continue to flourish. And OTM is brilliant at capturing the magic of the ordinary in people from all walks of life. Breathe more into that and I wonder if you’ll have yourself a roaring fire.
Comment by: Helen
20Thanks, Pam. It seems to me that you’ve picked up on some key things about Off The Map.
Comment by: Jim Henderson
21Can Pam write or what!!!
Comment by: Helen
22I agree - Pam is an awesome writer!
Comment by: Rachel
23I’ll give it a try, Siamang. I admit to feeling a bit wary but if an old fuddy-duddy like Mike can hang out there, then surely I can handle it. Just kidding, Mike! OK, off I go…
Comment by: Pam Hogeweide
24you guys are too flippin’ kind.
Comment by: Phil
25What do I think it is?
Teaching Christians to care about sharing their faith, and not be stupid jerks at the same time.
What do I think it should be?
I think the mission should be to do the impossible - perform what I think it is above.
Sorry - I’m just a pastor with a long tongue in a deep cheek. ;-)
Comment by: Pam Hogeweide
26um, that makes for an interesting image in my head :-)