Posted by Helen on: 03.28.2007 /
I remember a particular day a number of years ago when I was in the library looking for childrens’ books. My children were at the age where books needed to have lots of pictures and not too many words to be interesting.
As I looked through I realized “Hey, all I’m looking for is good stories. What is it with all these books that have ‘agendas’?” It seemed to me that the UK books did a little better at simply being ‘a great story’ than the US ones but that could have been because only the best British books made it across the Atlantic.
This is what I mean by ‘agendas’. There were lots of “I have a new baby brother” books. Agenda? To help a child adjust to having a new sibling. A great many of the books were like this - they had a message they were trying to get across, first and foremost. They weren’t imaginative or funny or any of the things I was hoping for. I was thankful and relieved whenever I ran across books like Kipper whose only agenda I could detect was to be silly.
I was reminded of this yesterday because I took my daughter to a ‘meet the author’ event. My daughter was intrigued by a book of hers all written in instant messages. We were about to buy it a few days ago then we noticed the author was going to be at the store yesterday. So we went back then instead, to meet the author and get a signed copy of the book.
The author read a passage from a book about a twelve year old girl. The whole passage was about this girl’s angst that she’d reached the stage of physical development where her Mom said “We need to get you a bra”.
I was thinking “Who’d read that?” and I was glad to find out afterwards that my daughter came away with no interest in reading that book.
So here again is a story with an agenda - this part evidently is intended to help girls see that it’s normal to have all sorts of feelings about changing physically.
Whether these stories are for preschoolers or teenagers I think they have subverted the point of story, which is to capture the readers imagination and take him/her new places. Story is intended to open up the world. I think these books shut it down. By implication they tell children “when this happens, you will have negative feelings about it”. In reality each child is unique and reacts to situations differently.
If a child does feel anxious or afraid, is a book going to resolve that? I doubt it. I think what will work is having friends and older people who have been through it, who understand, who the children can process it with. These other people, because they know the child, don’t have to presuppose a problem. They can wait and see if it actually arises, then deal with it.
I’d like to get back to where stories are stories, not attempted therapy in written form.
Comment by: joeturner
1 03/28/07 4:20 AM | Comment Link |Yey shane claiborne. He’s the man.
Comment by: Helen
2 03/28/07 4:50 AM | Comment Link |Joe, could you elaborate? I’ve heard of him but haven’t read any of his books. Does he write stories? I thought he wrote “How to be a better Christian” books but what do I know…as I said I haven’t read any (yet).
Comment by: benjamin ady
3 03/28/07 7:28 AM | Comment Link |Helen,
My first reaction to your comments is “But wait–there are are *so* many really kewl books out there!”
Have you seen Shaun Tan’s picture brooks? Brilliant for adults–haven’t gone over super well with my little ones–but yours are older and might like them?
I like the picture books of Eric Carle and Lucy Cousins and Pamela allen and Beatrix Potter and the Katie books and the Curious George Books and Dr. Seuss books and the Madeline books and …
Can I recommend Princess Aasta by Stina Langlo Ordal?
have you ever checked out the many … shorter fantasy stories of George Macdonald? All available free online (no pictures there though) (I say shorter because he has the two mega brilliant longer ones)
I shall now desist
Comment by: jim henderson
4 03/28/07 8:06 AM | Comment Link |Not that it has anything to do with your post but I did hear Shane C in St Louis and think he is the real deal
Comment by: April Terry
5 03/28/07 8:23 AM | Comment Link |I don’t know why, but this topic sort of reminds me of that movie, “Jesus Camp.” I think it does because some of the stories sounds like “kiddie propaganda” of sorts.
Have you noticed how our culture is so overly concerned with our children’s psyche? Seriously. Think about your own childhood. Did your parents even care if you read good books or bad books? Did your parents care if you read? Did your parents worry about what you watched when you were a kid? My son brought “It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World” to school for movie day and they turned it off when one of the guys said, “Damn.” I thought that was a bit extreme. Plus, I watched the movie as a kid and before I sent it to school and it wasn’t bad at all.
I sometimes wonder if by limiting the junk that comes into our children’s view too much we are actually enticing them to want to know more about the forbidden. By the way, I wonder, but I still limit what my child watches!
I’m with you. Why can’t a story be just a story sometimes?
Comment by: Karen
6 03/28/07 5:19 PM | Comment Link |I don’t like “agenda” fiction either, for kids or adults. I tend to run across them a lot particularly in the books marketed to “tweens” (young teens) and teens.
My experience with my kids was that there was wonderful contemporary children’s fiction for the under-adolescent set but not so much with the older group.
Our local bookstore has a children’s specialist who reviews new books and often suggested the ones that are just “good stories” when I was looking for books for my kids. Maybe you could find someone like that at a local bookstore or library to make some suggestions for your kids? I assume they’ve read the Series of Unfortunate Events and Harry Potter books (which my kids still adore)?
Comment by: Karen
7 03/28/07 5:21 PM | Comment Link |Oh, my kids also loved everything by Roald Dahl, who was apparently a rather miserable human being but a wonderful author.
Comment by: Julie Marie
8 03/28/07 6:35 PM | Comment Link |Ben-I discovered Eric Carle’s books about a year ago - they are wonderful! My son loves them.
My favorite (for tween girls, at least I enjoyed them then) are the Little House books. The TV series didn’t do them justice.
I wonder if the proliferation of these agenda books says anything about parents fear of not addressing sensitive topics without “expert” input? I fall into that trap sometimes. One really winds up in a pickle when the experts disagree. My first dog training experience was an exercise in trying to apply conflicting expert opinions. Poor Wuff. Poor Julie. But he did grow into a great dog and wonderful companion. Always was a bit neurotic though. I’m sure it was all my fault ;)
Comment by: Doreen
9 03/29/07 8:39 AM | Comment Link |In some instances, tossing your child a book instead of engaging in dialog is like plunking your child in front of the TV instead of engaging in dialog.
Frankly, if my parents had given me “So you’re gonna have a baby sister” book when my sister was on her way, it would not have made me feel any better about being displaced (yes, oldest child syndrome).
I do see a place for some of these kinds of books, however. I’m not for “Heather has 2 mommies” in the classroom, but think a book like that can be very helpful to a child in that kind of situation.
Comment by: Rachel
10 03/29/07 9:34 AM | Comment Link |That’s definitely not Shane! I think that “how to be a better Christian books” would fall into the category that Shane affectionately calls “chicken poop for the soul.” (he-he) Shane has only written one book as far as I know. It is “The Irresistible Revolution: Living as An Ordinary Radical.” Shane lives in a community called The Simple Way and the book tells about his adventures, mistakes, discoveries, musings, “theological pranks and prophetic stunts” as he struggles to figure out what it looks like to follow Jesus. The book is challenging and unsettling but not in an “I’ve got it figured out and you need to do these 10 things” kind of way. It’s unsettling in a “following Jesus will mess up your life big time” kind of way. Here is an excerpt:
I know there are people out there who say, “My life was such a mess. I was drinking, partying, sleeping around…and then I met Jesus and my whole life came together.” God bless those people. But me, I had it together. I used to be cool. And then I met Jesus and he wrecked my life. The more I read the gospel, the more it messed me up, turning everything I believed in, valued, and hoped for upside-down. I’m still recovering from my conversion.
Comment by: Staci
11 03/29/07 11:34 AM | Comment Link |Oh, crap. Now I’ve got to worry that I give my parenting responsibilities to both the TV and books! :-)
Actually, this discussion reminded me of a creative writing class I took in college. My son was almost a year old at the time and my professor would encourage me to bring him to class, along with his favorite books. It was Spring term, so we usually had class out on the lawn. Almost every class the professor requested that I read “Good Night Moon” and “Go, Dog, Go” to the class. I don’t think I’ve ever seen happier college students than those laying on the grass in the shade listening to children’s books. The professor said these books make us happy because they aren’t trying to sell us anything or change us.
But… I guess such books still have the agenda of trying to make us happy. I think I can live with that.
Comment by: Rachel
12 03/29/07 5:35 PM | Comment Link |Karen, Anna and I read through all the Series of Unfortunate Events books together. They are so campy and over the top so they are tons of fun to read aloud, especially for a couple of drama queens like us! We especially enjoyed voicing Esme Squalor and Carmelita Spats.
Of course, the Series books do have an agenda - to teach kids about vocabulary, common idioms, literary devices, etc. But they make it so fun that you don’t mind.
Comment by: Pete S.
13 03/29/07 10:35 PM | Comment Link |My daughter (11) loved the entire Series of Unfortunate Events books. She’s read them all, and has refused to tell me what happened in the thirteenth and final book. I will not entice any of you to divulge that information….unless you want to….
Many children still enjoy the Chronicles of Narnia. Now those books tell a story, but may be said to have “an agenda.” I don’t think agenda is quite the right word, but they have a purpose. Part entertainment, part story, part wisdom, part sheer fantasy, part Christian symbolism, but not written in order to be partitioned.
George MacDonald is one of my favorite authors, but his Victorian style drags on for most children. I’ve tried to read his work to my classroom, but the kids grow bored.
Here’s a couple good titles: Coffin on a Case, by Eve Bunting.
The Hatchet books by Gary Paulsen.
Any of Jerry Spinelli’s books: Maniac Magee (a must read), Loser, Wringer….
That’s my two cents worth.
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Comment by: Pete S.
14 03/29/07 10:39 PM | Comment Link |What’s interesting, is that my older two kids (actually they’re both young adults) and I are fanatical Harry Potter fans. We get the book virtually the day, or at least the week, that it comes out. My daughter devours it first (usually all in one day: 800+ pages). Then I take a few days to read it, then my son. Not always in that order. But we have some marvelous talks afterwards, and are eagerly awaiting the final installment: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. (interesting title)
Comment by: Rachel
15 03/30/07 7:50 AM | Comment Link |I’ll tell you…for a small fee. ;-)
Comment by: Karen
16 03/30/07 10:02 AM | Comment Link |Heh, heh, heh
Comment by: Julie Clawson
17 03/30/07 2:49 PM | Comment Link |Okay. I love stories that are stories - but honestly most of them have agendas too. Cinderella - if you are beautiful you are a good person, if you are ugly you are evil. Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, The Little Mermaid - girls just need to wait around for a prince to rescue them. So I have no problem with agenda books as long as I like the agenda or it helps to counter destructive dominant agendas.
I love all of Todd Parr’s books - very very agenda driven, but supporting the values I want to convey (peace, tolerance). I also love the “Not one Damsel in Distress” (empowering stories about girls) and “Mightier than the Sword” (non-violent stories about boys). Sure they have an agenda, but those stories are needed to counter the typical ones that support traditional stereotyped gender roles.
Comment by: Helen
18 03/30/07 2:51 PM | Comment Link |My children enjoy the Unfortunate Events books. I find them annoying but that’s ok - I don’t have to like them. They’ve read all those and all the Harry Potter books - and my son has read each Harry Potter book since about the third one non-stop until he’s finished as soon as it’s become available. If a book is at all well-known and is for my son’s age then very likely he’s read it.
Doreen - that’s just it; I don’t think books with agendas can replace dialog. I suppose maybe they can aid dialog but I’d like it if ‘dialog-aiding’ books were separated from ‘great stories’.
Pete, I enjoyed the Narnian Chronicles when I was growing up. Now I look at C.S. Lewis’s fiction and find it a bit heavy-handed and lacking in various things that make novels great such as great character development and descriptive passages. I wouldn’t say he was a great fiction writer in those respects. However I did enjoy the stories growing up - and I wasn’t a Christian then - so if they had an agenda to push Christian themes (I’ve heard people argue both ways on that) it wasn’t done in a way that put me off the books as a child.
Rachel, maybe this seems weird but I count books about “How Jesus messed up my life” as “How to be a better Christian” books. They’re really different from other “How to be a better Christian” books but in the end I see that as what they’re about.
I wasn’t thinking of those books - I’m thinking more of novels/fiction which are actually attempts at therapy or heavy-handed moralizing in disguise. Someone gave my children one of those heavy-handed moralizing books once - it was a Christian kids book - it was laughably bad. Oh well. Perhaps it’s good that it made me laugh…
Comment by: Rachel
19 03/30/07 4:54 PM | Comment Link |I see your point, Helen. I guess I prefer someone telling their own experiences and observations versus laying out step by step rules to follow. So one seems like a story and the other seems like a sermon. But the difference there can be quite subtle and subjective.
Comment by: Pete S.
20 03/30/07 10:53 PM | Comment Link |Helen: I know what you are talking about. I’m a Christian, yet I cringe at some of the “Christian” books out there, especially those that deal with themes like: a youth group that has to deal with an adult leader that gets everyone to start worshipping Satan and no one in the congregation even has a clue that that is going on. (I actually read that one once. It was laughably bad, simply put.) So many of those books simply don’t portray real people, real dialogue, real ambiguity, real complexity.
I don’t think Lewis developed his characters that well either, at least in the Narnia books. I greatly prefer Tolkien’s Middle-earth over Lewis’s Narnia. Hands down Tolkien was a better mythological writer. I read The Hobbit to my class years ago, but I usually don’t, solely because of its length.
Comment by: Pete S.
21 03/30/07 10:58 PM | Comment Link |Hmmmmm…..(how much?)
NOOOOO!!!! I resist, I’ll earn it the hard way…..
Actually I’ll have to agree with Helen, I really find the Unfortunate Events books annoying. I really can’t stand Count Olaf. Now there’s a person worth hating. [That's a comment related to the other thread I've addressed : They hated Jesus without reason.]
But maybe that’s really okay, given the fact he is a stereotype without a soul.
Comment by: Helen
22 03/31/07 12:11 PM | Comment Link |Pete S. wrote:
Exactly.
Yes, I also think Tolkien is a much better fiction writer.
Hey Pete, we found some things we agree about! ;-)
Comment by: Staci
23 04/2/07 3:44 PM | Comment Link |One book series with no agenda that I could find (though I wasn’t really looking) and that is pure silly fun: Captain Underpants. My son LOVES them. He started reading them at 7 and still rereads them at 12. These books do not to appear help children deal with anything, learn greater truths, improve their character, or expand their horizons. I would say they are the children’s book equivalent of the Dumb & Dumber movies. Warning - if you are uptight about bathroom humor, highly appealing to preteen boys, avoid these books.
Sure, he reads the books everyone has mentioned (Harry, Unfortunate, Paulson, Chronicles, etc.), but Captain Underpants is the perfect sick day read. And don’t overlook the classics: Where the Red Fern Grows, Tom Sawyer, Treasure Island, etc. Its hard to have good fiction with wonderful characters without some kind of learning happening, but these time tested books make you find it on your own.
Comment by: Helen
24 04/3/07 7:00 PM | Comment Link |My children have read those but I haven’t. I have to say the title put me off ;-)
Comment by: Pete S.
25 04/3/07 10:15 PM | Comment Link |Given enough time, enough patience, and enough humility, even we can find something in common. …double ;-) …. that’s why we all need to not give up on each other.
Comment by: Helen
26 04/4/07 3:45 AM | Comment Link |Exactly :). Thanks for not giving up on us (or me)!