Posted by Helen on: 04.11.2007 /
A few months ago Mike Clawson asked me if I’d be willing to be interviewed at the Midwest Emergent Gathering taking place near Chicago in July. It sounded like a fun opportunity so I agreed. I’m looking forward to the conference and I hope I’ll see some of you there.
Mike and his wife Julie are the pastors of Via Christus, one of the churches Hemant reviewed for Off The Map last year. They both maintain active blogs (Emerging Pensees and one hand clapping) and sometimes join in the conversations on our Off The Map blogs and discussion board.
I asked Mike the following questions about the conference (I also threw in a few about his involvement with Off The Map and his mentor Rich Swetman, since I was curious)
How did you first hear of Off The Map?
I remember seeing the DVD’s of the Lost Interviews for sale at a few ministry conferences, but I didn’t want to shell out the money at the time (I own them now), and I remember being impressed that Brian McLaren spoke at their conferences. However I didn’t really start looking into OTM until I heard about the eBay Atheist project (can’t remember how I stumbled on that - maybe a link from someone’s blog). I was really intrigued and loved reading Hemant’s church reviews. I posted a comment to the blog suggesting other churches for Hemant to visit, including my own, and then Jim Henderson called to ask if he could send Hemant to ours. From then on I was an avid reader of the blogs and resulting message boards.
What influence has Off The Map had on you?
It’s greatly affected the way I look at a lot of things. I understand the atheist perspective far more now than I ever did and feel like I’m better equipped to reach out in friendship to non-religious people because of that. The discussions I’ve had on the blogs and message boards have especially helped me refine and improve my own beliefs.
I should also say that Jim’s opening statement at the Revolution Conference “It’s more important to be kind than to be right”, has indeed been a revolutionary concept for me. I would have agreed with that sentiment before the conference, but I had never heard it put so succinctly and so well before that.
How did Rich Swetman become your mentor and how has he helped you?
About three years ago I was having dinner with Brian McLaren at a conference and shared with him my desire to plant an emerging church. Brian told me that if I ever did I should contact Rich about coaching me. I remembered this advice, and a couple of years later when I was in the midst of starting a new church I gave Rich a call. I think Rich and his wife Rose have one of the best examples of a healthy missional church that I’m aware of. They’re not a huge church with a big budget, and yet they’re making a difference in a big way in their own community. They’ve given me a great example to follow, and proof that even ordinary churches can be revolutionary in their approach. Rich constantly encourages me to always prioritize mission in everything our new church plant does. Unless we build that in right from the beginning it is far too easy to let mission fall by the wayside until we’re bigger or more established or whatever.
How did you come to be the organizer of the Midwest Emergent Gathering? Was this conference your idea?
A few of us Midwesterner emergent types were sitting around in Seattle at the Revolution Conference last November complaining about how all the good conferences are on the coasts. We wondered why someone didn’t plan a conference in Chicago, the heart of the Midwest. Then we said “Why don’t we plan one?” and we ran with the idea. Initially it was myself and Sarah Notton, leader of the Indianapolis Emergent Cohort, who were the driving forces behind the conference, but since then we’ve gathered a good team of other leaders who are helping us with the details and planning.
Who is the Midwest Emergent Gathering for?
It’s for anyone who wants to discover how to create a missional faith community, or how to transition their existing community into a more missional mindset. However, I should clarify that this isn’t just about churches or just for pastors. A missional community could be an emergent cohort, or a group of friends who live in the same neighborhood and want to make difference right where they live - we’re even inviting a number of speakers who have disengaged entirely from the institutional church and yet continue to create missional community by gathering friends for backyard barbecues and serving food to the homeless on weekends.
You don’t even have to be especially “emergent” to attend. “Missional” is a much broader term than “emerging”, and we’ve invited speakers from a wide spectrum of belief and practice - from mainline to evangelical, megachurch and house church, urban monastic and suburban contemporary, and more. All you need is a conviction that the church is at it’s best when it’s giving itself away, and a desire to learn how to do that better in your own context.
Why are you interviewing outsiders at it? What makes me, Hemant Mehta and John Armstrong ‘outsiders’? How did you choose us in particular?
We want to be real careful about that term and be very clear that we don’t use “outsider” as a word to label or exclude. For us it’s an affectionate term - it’s people who self-identify as “outsiders” to the particular stream that most people at the conference stand in - whether that’s outside the “emerging church” or outside Christianity as a whole. (Though in another sense, given the wide diversity of faith backgrounds we’ve invited to the conference, you could say that we are all “outsiders” to each other in one way or another.) The whole point of this conference is to bring together a wide diversity of opinions and approaches. If we only brought together people who already think alike how would we learn anything? So the desire to include “outsider” voices is part of this desire to learn from those who are not already a part of “us”.
You and Hemant represent the “outside the Christian faith” perspective - Hemant as someone who was never part of it, and yourself as someone who was and has since walked away. Both of you can bring us important insights into how to do a better job of communicating with people like yourself, as well as how we can start partnering with the non-religious community for shared missional goals (like serving the poor, fighting intolerance, etc.).
John, on the other hand, brings us the perspective of a friendly observer of the emerging church. He doesn’t consider himself “emergent” (though definitely missional) but he’s not entirely opposed to us either. The emerging church has sadly lacked for any really good critiques. Most of the criticism we’ve received has been from people who don’t seem to really understand what we’re saying in the first place, and thus they typically misrepresent us. John, I think, understands where we’re coming from, and thus can offer us some good encouragements and cautions as someone who wants to help us become better than we are.
Great questions! thanks for asking. :)
Comment by: Mike Clawson
1Thanks for posting this Helen.
I hope all of you here that are able will come on out to the conference this summer. It’d be great to have you all there. Maybe if there’s enough of us from the OTM sites we can organize a lunch together one of the days.
Comment by: Helen
2You’re welcome, Mike.
I hope some of you can come - it would be fun to see you there!
Comment by: Rachel
3I feel the same way, Mike.
Me too. And I also really liked Brian’s way of stating it, “If you aren’t kind, you aren’t right.” I’ve thought about that so many times and repeated it to so many people since.
Rich is a really cool guy! Jim hooked me up with him when I was doing a research project on the Jesus People movement. Rich had some interesting stories to tell from those days. He lived in Haight-Ashbury and he knew The Doors before he joined the Jesus People Army in Seattle.
That sounds awesome, Mike! I hope you and Julie will give us a report after the conference.