Posted by Helen on: 08.09.2007 /
Benjamin Ady tagged me to join in Christians confess.
I think he wants to know “So, when you were a Christian, just how much of a jerk were you, anyway?” :-)
Seriously, I like how Benjamin joined in this confession, considering if he might have things to confess from when he considered himself a Christian. My first reaction was “I don’t want to add myself to a list of current Christians because that doesn’t seem quite right. It seems like people might misconstrue me joining in as me taking an opportunity to complain about what jerks Christians are, in the guise of confessing.” My second one was “Hey, I wasn’t a jerk! I did my best to be a decent person back then”. But my third was “Do I have anything I regret from those days? Anything I thought, said or did, because of being a Christian?”
I do and some might be too personal to post here. But I can give you a general idea.
- I regret ever assuming someone was more trustworthy or had better character just because they were a Christian. I no longer believe this. At one time, knowing someone was a Christian made me more likely to trust them, hire them or vote for them solely because they self-identified that way. I apologize for making this assumption. I wish I had evaluated people based solely on demonstrated character and not at all on faith.
- I regret any time the obligation I felt to ‘witness’ led me to say things which adversely affected my relationships. I regret any time I put pressure on anyone to go to church. I was so bad at witnessing - I found it so hard - that this probably had much less effect than it might have had. Nevertheless I’m sure I put people in the situation of having to put up with me/tolerate me/humor me. That’s the opposite of how I currently define ’serving others’.
- I regret ever assuming things were true just because they were in the Bible. I no longer believe this. I regret that I let my belief system dissuade me from thinking critically and applying the scientific method to everything. I hope I will never let anything dissuade me from that again. Specifically, I regret ever assuming/seriously entertaining the thought/believing
- eternally torturing a human being could under any circumstances be considered just or fair
- eternally torturing all human beings except a minority God rescues from this fate, could under any circumstances be considered just or fair
- taking two people who are essentially as good as each other and assigning one to eternal torture and the other to eternal bliss because they believe different things aboug God could be under any circumstances considered just or fair
- human beings are ’sinners’ is an appropriate way to view humanity
- there is a moral dimension to sexual orientation
…those are the ones which most quickly spring to mind.
I apologize to anyone I hurt directly or indirectly by my thoughts, words or actions as outlined above.
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27 Responses to "Christians confess"
Comment by: seekingsomething
1Thanks for this thread, Helen.
Most of your ‘confessions’ strike a chord with me too.
I’m so sorry that I ever thought that ‘clever’ arguments were my God-given gift to bestow on the world.
I’m horrified to think of the wedding that I attended joylessly because I believed it was wrong for my friend to be ‘yoked with an unbeliever’.
I’m ashamed that I wasn’t able to share the pain of a friend that had an abortion because I wasn’t someone she could trust to listen and to love unconditionally. I’m sorry that I didn’t see the irony in spending my time ‘witnessing’ to her intead about agape love.
I deeply regret spending more time with my Church ‘family’ than my real family.
I’m sorry that I ended up so judgemental and unloving - I don’t want to behave that way again to anyone, whether they are Christian or not.
Comment by: Helen
2Thanks ss. You were braver than me in being more specific! Thanks for sharing your own confessions here. Reading your list reminds me of other things I regret.
I’ve covered this before but maybe should have included it: it was noticing my own drift towards valuing rightness over kindness - and being appalled - that brought me to a significant crossroads and caused me to change direction, taking a path that was to lead me all the way to where I am today.
Comment by: John Smulo
3Helen,
I’m really glad you decided to participate in this. Your answers are raw and honest–especially the last one with the points.
Interestingly, I think they’re a lot more raw than the ones of many people who have participating who are currently Christian. I wonder why this is, but suppose I can guess.
Comment by: Karen
4Two things that come to mind immediately:
I’m so ashamed and sorry that I prayed for nonbelievers to “hit rock bottom” with their problems; or to be laid low by life in general because such misfortune would possibly make them more open to the gospel.
Twice I was invited to dinner by Muslim families and I made excuses for not accepting their hospitality because I felt there was something “satanic” in their homes that could taint me or my children. Their disappointment at my rejection was so palpable, their faces still haunt me. :-(
Comment by: Lorna (see-through faith)
5thank you for your honesty in your apology.
As Christians we have a lot to apologise for - in our behaviour and our attitudes
we’ve come a long way FROM what Jesus modelled
Comment by: Helen
6Thanks John. Potentially it could be problematic mixing ex-Christian and Christian confessions because ex-Christians might confess things that Christians still believe. Like “I’m sorry I ever believed anything so silly as…” I expect you get the picture. There are probably some Christians who wouldn’t like my confession because they ascribe to the doctrines I regret once believing.
Karen wrote:
Karen, I agree - it’s a rather nasty thing to pray, actually. Why not get out the voodoo doll and go all the way? “I’m doing this for your good - don’t worry!”
A well-meaning Christian once prayed that way for my husband. I thought…hmmm, if he is miserable that’s going to adversely affect me. I’m not so sure I like this prayer!
Thanks Lorna. My sense is - people who aren’t Christian don’t get offended by Christians being human. They get offended by Christians being human and at the same time saying/implying “our version of being human’ - which to people who aren’t Christian looks essentially the same as theirs - “is acceptable to God, but yours isn’t”. It’s anything which people who aren’t Christians hear as “We’re better than you!” which offends them. And then if Christian behavior indicates otherwise, that adds insult to injury.
I thought of another confession related to Christianese: I regret that I ever made assumptions like “if someone speaks Christianese that means they really get it - they have the right beliefs; they are on the right track”. Yikes.
Comment by: joe
7Hi John Smulo! Hey Laura!
Helen - it isn’t my site, so what I say means nothing. I just wanted to say that at the start (before I rant).
OK. Prepare for a rant. Ready?
Helen, what on earth do you think you are doing? I really don’t get where you get off. I think your change of view and theological perspective is entirely understandable and your honesty commendable.
However, I just don’t see that there is any value whatsoever in using the (concept of the) christians confess website to decry all the wild and weird ideas and practices you once had, at the same time administering a backhanded slap to all those crazies who confess to be Christian.
How about you confess something might be wrong with your current personality and ideas rather than those of the life you have left behind? How about the tendancy (clearly not exclusively held by you) of creating an image of those you disagree with which is not much more than a reflection of all the bad things you hate about yourself? Or working on the chip you have on your shoulder? You need to get over yourself, lady. Find something positive to believe in rather than trying to not be something you hate.
I value John’s website - and actually I find the confessions rather difficult to read. This is largely because contributors own the problems they describe - rather than pretending that they are aspects of a previous life they have miraculously grown out of, shedding all the frailties and climbing a great new mountain of enlightenment.
Right, rant over. I still think you are a wonderful person Helen.
Comment by: seekingsomething
8I don’t understand your comment above, Joe. If you honestly believe that your comments mean nothing then why say them? Or why not own what you say, wholeheartedly, and find a more polite way to say them than simply ranting with a ‘BTW I still think you’re awonderful person’ tag on the end, which feels rather odd.
It looks to me as though Helen explained at the beginning her initial discomfort at accepting Benjamin’s challenge in part due to some of the issues you raise. But why shouldn’t she (and the rest of us) participate in a discussion about the regrets that we have of the ways in which we (personally) have behaved to others in the past?
For my part, I have found the opportunity to reflect to be helpful to me on a personal level.
Comment by: joe
9Well, they mean nothing with respect to the christians confess website, which has nothing to do with me.
I don’t waste my time saying things I don’t mean.
I accept that Helen felt some discomfort, and I’m not preventing anyone from having a discussion or disagreeing with me.
And I don’t really feel like being polite today. Sorry, but there it is.
Comment by: Helen
10Thanks for your comments, Joe. They do mean something to me because I value your honest opinion. Also, I am sooo glad I’m not the only person who has days when they don’t feel like being polite!
Your response illustrates well why I hesitated to do this and wasn’t sure how to respond to Benjamin tagging me. In fact it’s helped me understand why I hesitated. I understand it better now I’ve read your comments. I am truly sorry for some of my past and that’s all I was intending to say. Yet as you point out, saying it in the context of Christians confessing current struggles could come across as me saying “I’m better than them because these things are in my past.” I didn’t intend to convey that but I can see how people could interpret it that way.
You’re absolutely right that my focus needs to be on what I struggle with today and on having something positive to believe in (as it were).
I’m happy to address that. Off The Map has helped me have something positive to believe in, through their focus on ‘otherlyness’, the spiritual practice of serving others. Whether it’s spiritual or not I know it’s a practice I strongly believe in. I know I have a long way to go because I am still very focused on my own needs and/or desires. I struggle against tendencies to negatively stereotype ‘Christians’ - I hope that my awareness about this helps me make it less of a problem than it would otherwise be. I think my past pushes me towards this and I fight against that. Along with that I struggle against getting angry over things that have happened to me. (It’s ok to be angry but I mean, I struggle with letting go of it appropriately and moving on). I’m sure there are lots of other things but hopefully at least I have admitted to some current issues now :)
ss I think reflection can be helpful as long as we, as the letter attributed to James says ;-), don’t just look in the mirror and forget what we look like, but rather go on to do something about what we saw!
Comment by: joe
11Helen, you’re a star. All power to your elbow.
Comment by: Helen
12Thanks Joe! (
Sometime can you explain the elbow thing to me? :))
Comment by: seekingsomething
13Helen said
Mmm, yes I agree, absolutely.
I’m at a stage where I have one or two Christian friends with whom its possible to share these kind of reflections, because I see them as my own ‘confessions’ and not necessarily a blanket judgement of Christians (I was fairly indiscriminate in my jugemental attitudes and unloveliness and behaved badly towards both groups at various times. Because I was aware there were so many Christians who were not as bible-believing as me….).
On your language post, I commented in that context that that I’m unsure whether the changes in me are simply because I’m no longer a Christian or whether they are also because I’ve grown up and matured in the time since I left Church. I guess the same applies here too. Many of my Christian friends have regrets about their early days as Christians too, since which time they have mellowed and reviewed their beliefs.
Comment by: Jim Henderson
14Helen is more of a follower of the way of Jesus than I am and I am a believer.
Joe - how are you not sure that you aren’t simply jealous of Helens ability to lead us believers
closer to the life Jesus calls all of us to?
Frankly she seems to be more adept at finding the log in her own eye than you appear to be
Comment by: joe
15I am jealous of Helen for many things. For example, she understands irony and is not phased nor offended easily. All of the things I said to her could and should be applied to me. I wish more people would have the guts to be rude to me more often, as I would probably grow more quickly as a person if they did.
Hence, I cannot really disagree with anything you’ve said here, Jim.
Comment by: Karen
16Joe, Helen is commendably gracious to you and very positive in her reactions, as always.
But I must say that I find your personal attacks offensive and uncalled-for. Coming to someone’s website and telling them to “get over themselves” - followed by the unctuous “you’re a wonderful person” disclaimer - is the behavior of a bully.
If you could find a more constructive way to disagree with people, you’d be far more effective in your online communications.
Comment by: Steve S.
17I know that I am new around here so maybe I am rehashing old topics…
…I can’t help but be saddened by the common portrayal of Christianity. I guess it seems like people have taken all of the wierd and perverse actions of christian people and attributed them to ‘Christianity’ and then chucked it…
…the only thing that saddens me more is the continued propagation of those wierd and perverse actions by people who proclaim that these actions are done in Jesus name.
I just had a conversation last night with a sign waving ‘evangelist’ at our local outdoor concert. I came away feeling like the guy didn’t care about me or anyone else at all. That doesn’t mean that ‘Christianity’ has produced a calloused individual, any more than the ‘Christian’ attitudes and actions that Helen et al were confessing should be laid at Jesus feet…
I thought Christianity was about Jesus?
Comment by: Eliza
18Steve S, I can’t tell if you’re using irony here:
Well, that’s what I used to think, before I learned more about it. Or, another way to put it: different types of Christianity focus on different aspects of Jesus. Brian McLaren’s book “A Generous Orthodoxy” was very helpful in laying this out for me.
Is it all about his life (& teachings about compassion, inclusion, mercy; largely based on the synoptic gospels), or is it all about his death (salvation from sin through faith in JC; based on John and, largely, on the epistles)?
IMO, the common theme in these confessions seems to be, “I was so focused on the second part, the salvation message, that I didn’t pay attention to the first part, the compassion message.”
Comment by: Benjamin ady
19thankyou eliza. your perspective is always so …. amazingly helfpul!
thankyou Helen for participating when I tagged you. I found your post provocate and helpful. Your comments about eternal torture very much reflect my own thoughts. I don’t say that to put christians down, or say they’re wierd, or anything like that. I mean I used to totally buy into the whole eternal torture of billions of people thing, and I wasn’t *that* wierd, or off, or anything. (okay, mabye I was. but not necessarily only, or even primarily, because of my christianity)
Comment by: Paul
20thank you helen, i always appreciate your honesty, even if you felt a lil like you were confessing to once believing in santa/tooth fairy/easter bunny - just not such a nice one :)
You’re an inspiration to me!
Comment by: Helen
21ss wrote:
Exactly - ss, I think it’s interesting that many Christians have some of the same confessions as me. My confessions are not “I’m sorry I was a Christian” but rather “I’m sorry about these specific things I believed, said and did” - things which some Christians are as sorry as I am about, while others continue to affirm them as appropriate Christian beliefs/behavior.
Jim I appreciate your defense of me but please remember I am trying to encourage respectful dialog around here!
Joe, I admire the way you responded to Jim - which also gives perspective to why you criticized me: you see criticism as more valuable than praise. I agree and I’ve already said I understand about those days of not feeling like being polite. Nevertheless I believeit’s possible to express constructive criticism without being rude and I’d prefer that when you can manage it :).
Thanks everyone for defending me - on the other hand please bear in mind that it’s more important to me that outsiders or people expressing a minority viewpoint get a fair hearing, than that I’m defended. I wrote about this in a new post, the challenge of valuing diversity.
Steve, I understand where you’re coming from and even if we’ve been there before, I think it’s important enough to keep on the table. In fact I’m going to repost it your comments and Eliza’s response…ok, here’s the new post:
I thought Christianity was about Jesus?
Anyone who wants to continue that conversation please do it on the new post.
Benjamin, I feel the same way about Christians who still believe things I confessed which I now consider to be hurtful beliefs. I wasn’t intentionally being hurtful; I didn’t realize; I didn’t think I had a choice. Somehow I voluntarily gave up permission to question the fairness and justice of some of the beliefs I was taught. One day I reclaimed it; and here I am (and also here are some Christians who equally have rejected some of the particular beliefs about God I’ve rejected).
Regarding weirdness, I think I’d be weird whatever I believed! :)
Thanks Paul. Actually I didn’t feel like that. I might have got off track a bit but my intent was to confess my beliefs, words and actions that had hurt people. I don’t see belief in God as hurting people per se, so I was not confessing that per se. Only specific beliefs which I now believe are hurtful to other people.
Comment by: Heather
22Hi, Helen. I followed the Sorry meme over to your blog. Your third point has made me think very long and hard about my own beliefs. Thank you for your honesty.
Comment by: Helen
23Hi Heather, thanks for your comment. I hope the thoughts you had after reading my third point were helpful to you.
Comment by: Pete
24Most of what was said here was very interesting, in fact I’m swiping some of the quotes/regrets and using them with my college student discussion tomorrow because I think they will helpful to show them how non-Christians view some of the more offensive beliefs of mainstream Christianity.
But this one disturbed me:
Frankly, I think the scientific method is overrated. Judging everything simply by what we can measure, develop natural laws (which are just man-made explanantions anyways)for and somehow tangibly experience, is in my opinion, a narrow view of the world and one the biggest issues with the world.
We don’t apply the scientific method to love, justice, mercy, grace, the bond of friendship, the way a starry sky steals our breath, the grief from losing anything loved, the sympathy we feel for others, compassion and a host of other things. Yet we would never claim those things are not real or true or valid (in fact if someone were to do so here, I would daresay they would be challenged passionately for not valuing another person’s experience).
So why then does it have to be something we apply to everything?
Honestly, I see this as being the opposite of the ‘faith crutch’ Christians are often accused of. Often, when a Christian can’t explain something, they play the faith card. But it seems just as often that when non-Christians want to poke a hole in something about Jesus or the Bible, they play the “scientific method/empirical proof” card. Both seem like underhanded and dishonest ways to ‘win’ the argument or at least feel like your view is justified without having any real support.
Why can’t BOTH be valid?
Comment by: Helen
25Thanks for your comments, Pete. I’m glad this will be useful for your college discussion class.
I reposted all of this as the following new blog entry:
Is the scientific method overrated?
Comment by: jeanne
26I’m just an old lady who lives way back in the Idaho mountains, I don’t get too involved in what’s going on and don’t know how I happened on this website, was just scrolling. What I read saddened me.
I was on fire as a young Christian and led some to the Lord, then walked away from God for twenty years and finally came back to Him.
The final realization is that we, as Christians whether pastors or other, do a lot of damage on our own but God gets the blame. That explains why we have ex-Christians and my heart breaks for what mankind does to each other. Forget what others tell you and stick with what the Bible tells you, read the red letter parts of the New Testament until you get back to REAL Christianity. It’s not the preacher yelling in the pulpit (God’s not deaf), it’s not about cutting or not cutting your hair, those are all man-made church doctrines and styles. It’s a turn-off to seeking hearts. We just wreck things, don’t we? Forgive yourselves, we’re made to be human, learn from experience, and don’t blame God for what people do.
Hope you don’t mind my two cents worth.
Comment by: Helen
27Thanks for your comment jeanne.