Up/rooted meeting with Spencer Burke, Neil Cole and Alan Hirsch

Posted by Helen on: 09.28.2007 /

Last night I went to hear these guys discuss the question “Missional: Has It Been Shrink-Wrapped Too?”

(This was not intended to be an all-male panel but for whatever reason, two of the five scheduled panelists didn’t make it, including the female one)

I went because I love hearing Spencer; also because this up/rooted meeting was a doable distance from where I live – about 25 minutes’ drive. Many of them are at least an hour’s drive away. Last night Mike Clawson announced that a city of Chicago up/rooted group is starting up next month. This will be a big help to people who find it hard to get to the meetings in the far suburbs, which has been the majority of them until now.

I love how good-natured Spencer is and how much he doesn’t care about. Many people (including me) seem to care too much about all sorts of things that don’t really matter. Especially in the world of ‘concepts’, ‘ideas’, and, dare I say it, ‘truth’ (whatever that means). Spencer mentioned in the course of the evening that he doesn’t actually care whether Missional has been shrink-wrapped. Of course the fact that he’s on a panel discussing it means he also doesn’t care that he doesn’t care. This kind of meta not-caring totally impresses me and is something I aspire to. Caring less about what doesn’t matter can only free me up to care more about what does.

I loved how Spencer asked questions about church I don’t hear asked (except I could imagine Jim asking them). They were provocative because he didn’t set church apart; he compared it with other aspects of life and asked why we do church in ways we wouldn’t even consider doing other things? For example he said: In school we never put kindergartners and PhD students together and expect one teaching to work for all of them. Why do we do that at church? At school we have teachers who specialize in different subjects. Why do we expect one teaching pastor to be an expert on marriage, culture, and everything else? He said he thinks the one hour Sunday morning event and church-as-we-know-it is doomed because increasingly, people have other options on Sunday and they are going to take them. He said a bank just began Sunday opening where he lives and even without that, birthday parties and soccer games are often on Sunday mornings.

I didn’t know anything about the other panelists until last night. Neil Cole is a church planter (or maybe he sends out church planters). He and Spencer both pointed out that it’s problematic when missional and money are too closely paired. Neil referred to the gospels a lot (which I liked) and pointed out how Jesus initially sent his disciples out without purses. He said, he has stopped paying church planters and since then, the quality of them has gone up a lot, because now the church planters have to live by faith. I commented and said “I like that they aren’t paid, because it means their communities need to support them, which means they have to be winsome and have people like them – they have no choice. That gives them appropriate accountability – they have to be effective in connecting with people in the community.”

Neil responded by saying something along the lines of “Sometimes they have to shake the dust off their feet because people aren’t receptive” and I said “Yes – but the problem is, people use that as an excuse sometimes when the reality is, the fault lay with them. They talk about casting pearls before swine but they never actually gave out any pearls.”

I commented to Spencer that I think the power structure is all wrong, with the teaching model – that saying “You need us to teach you how to understand the Bible” is a power trip. Jesus was in favor of an unbrokered kingdom, which is not what this system is. What does it mean that “I have the Holy Spirit to help me understand the Bible” if I have to be dependent on human teachers anyway.

Someone asked about whether too many books are being published; why do some people have to be in the limelight; why aren’t we out there doing more? I liked his questions; they were brave and honest. So I went over to meet him at the end. When he said his name – Jim Poole – I recognized it but didn’t know why; I thought I must have been to his blog. Anyway after we’d talked for a little while he mentioned he’s on Moody Bible Institute’s radio station and I realized, that’s it! I’ve heard a number of his skits (not sure if that’s the right name) on the radio because they were on once a week right when I was driving my son between schools last year. I noticed who they were by because I liked them. I never thought I’d meet the person who writes them! So I was excited about that, because I could tell him I think they’re excellent and they’re one of my favorite things on that radio station. They strike me as quite ‘real’ and somewhat of an oasis among all the ‘Christianese’ and dogma. So they caught my attention last year and I was pleased each time I was in the car and another one came on. (Jim’s piece is on on Tuesdays – evidently it’s a commentary. See here, for example)

Alan Hirsch seemed like a fun guy and I would have liked to meet him at the end but he was busy talking with people.

I expect Mike Clawson will write a much more comprehensive blog entry about last night than this one. I was sitting near him and saw he took a very impressive set of notes. Many things were said which I haven’t mentioned. Go check his blog for the full story. But…I win because my entry is up first! (I’m sorry to confess this isn’t one of things on my list to stop caring about)

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Semi-Related Posts

• Lunch with Lainie
• The Midwest Emergent Gathering
• My evening at the Brian McLaren lecture
• 1/28/08 city up/rooted meeting
• 12/17/07 Up/rooted city meeting
• Answer to Phil Johnson
• Chicago Up/rooted meeting

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