Posted by Helen on: 11.28.2007 /
Glenn Hager tagged me to comment on “How would you define simple faith?”
Glenn writes
What is simple faith? Believing God (and living like it) when darn near everything in you and around says that you should deny him.
That definition seems fine to me, but it’s the last thing I would want to have, since I don’t have a belief in God.
I’m used to the concept of ‘faith in God’ separating me from Christians since they think it’s good and I absolutely don’t want to have any. I was pleasantly surprised to find a definition of faith that worked for me in Brian McLaren’s latest book Everything Must Change. (Brian didn’t say this faith replaces all other forms of faith it’s appropriate for Christians to have - he simply suggested this is a meaningful definition in the context of his topic) In the book Brian defined faith as ‘faith that I really can make the world a better place, so it’s worth trying‘.
That’s a kind of simple faith that has meaning and value to me.
I’m supposed to tag 5 people…ok, Benjamin (if you want to post about this - I had mixed feelings so I understand if you don’t), Rachel, Lainie, Bill and ‘anyone else who wants to be tagged by me’.
Comment by: benjamin ady
1 11/28/07 9:20 AM | Comment Link |sounds like an oxymoron. which is kind of right up my alley.
Comment by: Karen
2 11/28/07 1:17 PM | Comment Link |If that kind of faith encourages people who are pessimistic or apathetic to go out and try to do good, then I’m all for it.
However, I don’t really think faith is needed. All you have to do is go out and try something - anything - and you’ll typically see good results for yourself. I’ve been involved in community outreach for many years - both Christian and secular - and I’ve never put sincere time and effort into a project that hasn’t made a positive difference, even if it’s just on a person-to-person level.
Comment by: glenn
3 11/28/07 1:35 PM | Comment Link |Helen- Thanks for participating! You got me thinking. I have to agree with Karen. Where is the faith in getting involved to make a difference? There is a definite cause and effect link. What do you do when everything is falling apart and life looks bleak? Your attitude and thoughts and, especially, your conclusions will reveal the nature and object of your faith.
Comment by: Helen
4 11/28/07 3:49 PM | Comment Link |Thanks for your comments, Glenn and Karen.
I do think it takes faith in global situations - I agree that in local situations we can see the difference. Globally it can seem like the problems are so great, what can I do? I don’t think there’s always a way to do something global where we can see the effect, BICBW.
Glenn in all honesty I have found secular psychology more help than faith in recent years when ‘everything is falling apart and life looks bleak’, as you put it. If I feel that way I’m depressed and that needs dealing with so I have the emotional strength to keep going.
Comment by: Erin Word
5 11/28/07 4:01 PM | Comment Link |How about faith in yourself in general?
Comment by: glenn
6 11/28/07 5:29 PM | Comment Link |You still have me thinking. Making a difference globally requires a kind of faith and is certainly a positive thing to do. Psychology can be helpful when dealing with the stresses of life. They just seem to be very bedrock. I know that you have heard this before, but in some respects, I think that it takes more faith to be atheist. I have wondered what you mean by “an almost atheist.”
Comment by: Helen
7 11/28/07 6:17 PM | Comment Link |Hi Glenn, here’s something about me being almost an atheist.
Yes, I have heard Christians say it takes more faith to be an atheist, but I strongly disagree with that. This is why - think about your day.
If you pray, that takes faith God exists. I don’t pray - that requires no faith.
If you seek God’s will that takes faith God exists. I don’t, so that requires no faith.
If you worship, that takes faith God exists. I don’t worship God so that takes no faith.
If you can think of some aspect of my daily life that requires more faith than yours I’d be interested to hear about it because I can’t think of any.
Comment by: Laura M.
8 11/28/07 9:09 PM | Comment Link |Atheism requires faith that humanity can do a better job of solving injustice and ‘evil’ by natural means than by supernatural means since we refuse to invoke supernatural means.
Theists can use both means (natural and supernatural) which requires less faith in one over the other.
Comment by: Helen
9 11/29/07 6:15 AM | Comment Link |Laura, I see what you mean; maybe atheism requires more faith in humanity than Christianity does.
Comment by: Karen
10 11/29/07 10:54 AM | Comment Link |Yes, I see what you mean, but I think that only applies to atheists who are optimistic about humanity’s ability to solve problems without supernatural means.
Even in that case, I wouldn’t characterize it so much as “faith” as I would something like “optimism.” After all, we can look at the evidence of the past couple hundred years and see very good stats showing that things like technology and public health and education are capable of solving many serious problems. The optimism part may apply more to individuals who are convinced that the majority of people in power are empathetic enough and interested enough to care about solving those problems rather than lining their own pockets or what have you.
Even still, there’s good evidence from history that the majority are empathetic and concerned about solving problems.
On the other hand, I know several pessimistic and apathetic atheists that don’t believe in god and also don’t have any faith that humanity can solve its problems, either.