Posted by Helen on: 12.01.2007 /
I read about this fascinating new book on John Frye’s blog. John shares these endorsements of the book from the back cover:
“I was absolutely bowled over by the extensive and extravagant data in this book. The charts and graphs were fascinatingly gripping. I applaud these courageous researchers for their careful and extensive work in bringing these hithertofore unknown truths to light. Christians of all traditions everywhere will benefit from this exquisitely timely tome.”
- Bishop N.T. Wrong, Cannon Fodder Scholar
“As a former friend of Lee Strobel’s, I was shocked to discover that Lee is a mere theological construct of hackneyed Enlightment categories of truth. I mourn the loss of one heck of a good guy. To read this new book about Lee, or who I thought was Lee, takes guts, let me tell you.”
- Slot McSheen, author of THE JESUS STEED
Read more about The Case for Lee Strobel.
Comment by: Eliza
1 12/1/07 3:15 PM | Comment Link |Having read every last one of Lee Strobel’s “The Case for…” books in my exploration of Christian apologetics 1-2 yrs ago, I can truthfully say: ROFL!
Comment by: Helen
2 12/1/07 6:49 PM | Comment Link |I thought it was funny too - I’m glad you liked it, Eliza!
Comment by: Benjamin ady
3 12/1/07 10:13 PM | Comment Link |Eliza,
Oh my god–you read all of strobel’s books? wow! hat’s off to you!
Were they … at all readable? I’ve always just assumed that they were unbearably tedious. I mean …. where’s the *story*?
Comment by: Benjamin ady
4 12/1/07 10:34 PM | Comment Link |I think the think that I assume I’d find offputting about strobel is his thoroughly modern take on thinks. My assumption is that he’s not really very interested in story, in mystery, in the unknown, in … what’s the opposite of meta narrative?
I mean he seems to be very invested in the idea that there is a correct and incorrect understanding about Jesus. But what if there are … say … 4 billion understandings about Jesus, and they are all different, and that’s ok? That sort of idea doesn’t seem to fit in Strobel’s worldview. It would be labelled “incorrect”, and there might even be nasty ultimate consequences implicitly associate with such a labelling. But these labels are inherently and extraordinarily boring. Even more boring than hypothesis testing at it’s driest.
Comment by: lousirr
5 12/2/07 12:24 AM | Comment Link |Have they not heard?
Have they not seen?
Who are they?
That cannot feel?
For the children!
It is for the children!
So why not
come and play?
Comment by: Eliza
6 12/2/07 1:03 AM | Comment Link |Strobel’s books have this general structure: (a) describe himself as a past journalist, skeptic, & agnostic/atheist who still remembers what it’s like to be that way; (b) lay out some questions about the proof for a divine creator, the existence of Christ, etc; (c) relate his “interviews” with various “experts” - scientists, historians, etc who are all devout Christians; then (d) partway through each “examination of the evidence”, suddenly claim that it all makes sense, it’s all true, the evidence is water-tight, end of need to investigate, case closed!!!
A skeptic can follow along in parts (a) through (c), though after a few of his books it’s pretty hard to swallow his “I remember what it’s like to be a skeptic and atheist like it was yesterday; I was such an atheist, you wouldn’t believe it” claim, and it’s pretty clear that his “journalistic” style is to facilitate the disclosure of his opinionated experts’ opinions, which he (duh) already knows, rather than to question them on their assumptions and conclusions. Part (b), his questions, are good ones (ones that have been asked by skeptics for centuries, not new ones, but that’s absolutely fine).
Part (d) was where I found myself grunting in disgust each time. This guy is soooo far from being a skeptic, and soooo far from approaching the topic in a rigorous journalistic fashion, that he ought to be fined for every time he claims that’s his approach. He makes logic & skepticism look bad, and I can’t for the life of me understand why so many people think his books are soooo compelling. (OK, I do sort of understand - he appeals to people who are already believers - n’est ce pas?)
Comment by: Eliza
7 12/2/07 2:22 AM | Comment Link |Sort of related: Richard Carrier’s blog has a detailed discussion of the newly-released book “There is a God: How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind”, about and purportedly by Anthony Flew. I haven’t read the book, but Carrier’s review, in part, describes it as using typical apologetics approaches, only not as well as Lee Strobel.
*Gulp*
Comment by: Helen
8 12/2/07 5:53 AM | Comment Link |I’ve been thinking lately about the difference between Christian apologetics that convinces Christians and Christian apologetics that might convince people who aren’t Christians.
There’s a big gap because all Christians need is a plausible defense of their beliefs. Whereas people who aren’t Christians need a defense of Christian belief that is more convincing than their current worldview. To work for people who aren’t Christians, Christian apologetics has to not just be plausible, but better than what they have now. And lots of people who aren’t Christians are quite happy with their current explanation/worldview. They aren’t looking for a different one - they have no need for it.
I think many Christians are unaware of this ‘gap’ and they think “this defense of my faith works for me, so it will work for people who aren’t Christians”.
Lee Strobel claims to have arguments that work for atheists - but evidently they don’t. I’ve yet to run across another atheist apart from Lee Strobel who is impressed by them.
Eliza, I think Lee Strobel has come out with another apologetics book recently - maybe you haven’t read them all…
(I understand your frustration with his writing so I won’t expect you to read it)
I like Richard Carrier - I ran across him years ago on the Internet Infidels Discussion Board. Yes, an apologetics book worse than Lee Strobel’s books…yikes!
Comment by: Helen
9 12/2/07 5:55 AM | Comment Link |Benjamin, I would say the books are frustrating rather than tedious, for the reasons Eliza mentioned.
Comment by: Helen
10 12/2/07 6:01 AM | Comment Link |Lousirr, thanks for your comment. I like how Jesus said “Unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven”.
Comment by: Karen
11 12/2/07 11:44 AM | Comment Link |Yippee! Now we know what to get Eliza for Christmas… ;-)
I don’t know him except for his participation in The God Who Wasn’t There movie, but I’m ever grateful to him. He’s the one who raises the issue of how people from all religious persuasions claim to have personal spiritual experiences, so we can’t really judge the truth or untruth of any religion based on its adherents’ claims of experiences such as miracles, healings, etc.
I hadn’t really ever considered that seriously before (duh!) and it made a big impression on me.
Comment by: kay
12 12/2/07 1:23 PM | Comment Link |Hmmm. I remain unconvinced by the “evidence” presented in this book. I’m an empiricist. Has anyone actually ever *seen* Lee Strobel?
;-)
Comment by: Helen
13 12/2/07 1:59 PM | Comment Link |I understand your skepticism, Kay.
I haven’t seen him myself and for all I know, the photos of him might be clever fakes. Perhaps a skilled photoshop user created them by beginning with another person’s photo and ‘Strobelizing’ it.
Comment by: Stephan
14 12/2/07 4:25 PM | Comment Link |After meeting atheists here I read some of Lee Strobel’s books through more skeptical eyes. I was very disappointed. Even as a believer I could effectively argue against many of his “proofs”. I agree with Benjamin that Strobel’s tactics are thoroughly modern, and not in the good sense of the word. He doesn’t ask the really hard questions and does not rebut the flimsy answers given. I think he could have done a much better job if he had collaborated with a true skeptic who would have pressed him on some of the more debatable points.
Comment by: Eliza
15 12/2/07 11:43 PM | Comment Link |Helen, I didn’t know Lee Strobel has a new book out, and Karen, thank you SO much for the thoughtful idea of it as a Christmas present ;-)
(50 lashes with a wet noodle sounds more appealing than reading yet another Strobel apologetics book…!)
Comment by: Helen
16 12/3/07 6:22 AM | Comment Link |Eliza, I was thinking Karen will get 50 lashes with a wet noodle from you for suggesting the book would be just what you wanted for Christmas!
(Speaking of which - I hope everyone will read Benjamin and Randy’s posts about Christmas and think about what we can do other than spend money on presents for people who already have lots of stuff…)
Comment by: Steve S.
17 12/3/07 9:28 AM | Comment Link |…there’s the rub!
There just aren’t too many people who are intellectualized into any kind of faith. Even guys like Lewis or Strobel (I don’t know Strobel’s story very well, so cut me some slack, we don’t want another carenet-gate!) who were brought to faith through intellectual and academic knowledge are open about the mystical aspect of their conversion as well…
I love the way the NT writers never really ask/answer the apologetical questions. Their ‘apologetics’ have more to do with the radical challenge they brought to the status-quo; a radical belief in the equality of all human beings, a resolute unwillingness to submit to the Pax Romana brought into effect through spear and cross; not inflicting violence, but rather suffering it in the belief that God would use their service to heal the world…
It seems like they were either never asked, or never thought it worth answering, ‘What evidence do you have that this man was really raised from the dead?’ It seems they felt their common life was an answer enough for any who looked on.
Considering this sure makes me question the way we attempt to live out our faith today…
Comment by: Helen
18 12/3/07 7:16 PM | Comment Link |Steve S wrote:
This is interesting to me because looking at the lives of Christians was one of the main reasons I started questioning my Christian beliefs.
And once I began questioning in that way I really didn’t care what ‘proofs’ Lee Strobel or anyone else said they had. If I couldn’t see evidence that Christianity makes a difference in peoples’ lives today, what’s the point?
Comment by: Steve S.
19 12/5/07 12:51 PM | Comment Link |…my point exactly!
What is it that is different about the lives of the people who convinced you by their ways that Christianity was false, from the lives of the people who convinced the entire Roman Empire that “Jesus is Lord” and Caesar isn’t?
That sure makes me want to rethink some things!
Comment by: Helen
20 12/5/07 8:04 PM | Comment Link |Steve S wrote:
Your question presupposes a certain interpretation of history…I’d rather not go there.
All I know is, I don’t find the Christians I know to be ’significantly better people’ than the people who aren’t Christians I know.
I just remembered (now it’s over) Lee Strobel was doing a live call-in show on my local Christian radio station this evening. It’ll be posted here when it’s archived. Maybe Lee IS real after all!