Posted by Helen on: 01.24.2008 /
Claudia asked the following questions in a comment on the Church Rater blog post Beth and Traci and the looks on their faces .
Beth suggested we bring Claudia’s questions over here. I thought that was a great idea. I think it’s neat when people who aren’t Christians ask friendly curious questions of Christians in order to understand Christians better.
I would love to hear more about your process of mulling/studying/struggling/etc. - are there guidelines you tend to follow, or patterns you recognize that lead you to read a given [Bible] passage in a certain way? Or do you trust to some instinct or divine guidance or feeling to let you know at what point God’s really speaking directly to you through the book?
And another question for the group at large - again, hoping this doesn’t come off as confrontational, it’s just really, really interesting: Can any work OTHER than the Bible be divinely inspired?
Comment by: pamhogeweide
1 01/24/08 1:45 PM | Comment Link |Great questions, Claudia!
That’s a good way to sum it up for me in regards to deciding if God is speaking to me in a given moment through a specific passage. Most people, including myself, will consider it the Holy Spirit highlighting something to us if it resonates within in that moment. Like when I was trying to quit smoking like forever ago, the verses I read about self-control and so on were very meaningful and helpful for me. But then there are other times where it’s more mystical and mysterious. For example, many times I will be quietly praying about something when the address of a passage will come to mind. I certainly don’t have the bible memorized so I have to look it up to see what it says. Many times it will be a timely passage about whatever I’m praying or thinking about. The best example of this was the time I was praying about getting married. I felt good about it, my closest friends felt good about it, but my parents, particularly my dad, were very negative about it. (we put the FUN in dysfunctional family, ok?) Anyway, I felt conflicted about it so I was praying when Psalm 45 came to my mind, like a thought, but a persistent thought. So I looked it up. The title of this psalm is The Wedding Psalm. No sh*t. And the verse that really resonated with me was the one about the bride leaving her father’s house to marry her groom. That moment in time of reading that passage became the means of how God spoke to me. This resulted in peace about getting married, and btw, this year we celebrate our 20th!
As for the second part of your question, I believe God can speak into our lives anyway he chooses. I have experienced this in all kinds of ways. The bible is very common, through conversations with other people or sermons is of course another common way. But also through songs on the radio, (Shameless by Garth Brooks did this for me once, and so does the sound track from Moulin Rouge), tv shows,
movies, billboards, nature, and most definitely other books.
God is the best and most creative communicator I know.
Ok, I just reviewed your second question and realize I’m a bit off mark.
In my opinion and experience, Yes.
But this opens the big can of worms about what is divine inspiration and is divine inspiration found in natural law and general revelation in everyday life. Without becoming philosophical, I believe that God can and does inspire whatever he wants to.
Comment by: benjamin ady
2 01/24/08 6:43 PM | Comment Link |Pam,
I love the way you’re not afraid to admit you like, or at least listened to, Garth Brooks. Country Music is considered astoundingly gauche in seattle, and one would hardly dare to admit one had ever listened to it. At least that’s been my experience. (Note: this comment in no way implies that I have any idea who Garth Brooks is or have ever listened to or liked country music =)
I am *aware* that this is a ‘big can of worms’, but as to *why* it is, I’m completely stymied. To me it seems … bloody obvious that *if* there is a god, who made *everything*, he or she can reveal him or herself any damn way he or she pleases.
Comment by: Beth
3 01/25/08 4:06 AM | Comment Link |What is this “Garth Brooks” of which you speak?
I was taught by some friends in low places, in the most improbable context (a somewhat conservative seminary), that “all truth is God’s truth.”
What does that mean? Discuss.
I proooomise, Claudia, I’ll respond. My brain is tied up with stuff like 1) what to wear to the Traci and Beth interview tonight and 2) whether the Church of Christ Scientist should be a stop on our tour. Oh. And my kids have been expecting me to drive them places, help with homework and cook them food! The nerve.
Comment by: Helen
4 01/25/08 4:50 AM | Comment Link |Beth I hope it goes well tonight!
Comment by: Jason Horton
5 01/25/08 9:32 AM | Comment Link |How interesting. As a slight aside I used to pick random passages out of my Complete Works of William Shakespeare when I was a child. It was surprising how often I could actually place some meaning on the passage that had a direct bearing on my emotional state. It was only later in life that I wondered about this and decided that it was me putting the context on the text rather than the other way around.
I suppose someone who holds to the idea of a divinely inspired bible would say that Shakespeare was also divinely inspired. Given the context I think that the Bard would quite like that.
I would also say that this is how I think horoscopes are seen as so accurate by people who want to believe in them.
Comment by: Beth
6 01/28/08 4:43 AM | Comment Link |Okay. Regarding inspiration: I don’t know. I know, as I suspect do you, per Constantine’s directive the scholars of the day convened to decide definitively which books to include in the canon. Apparently there were others that didn’t have the historical or theological integrity the ones they finally put in did. So no more Scripture is added to that Scripture as divinely inspired canonical material. But I’m not telling you anything you don’t know about that.
But from a non-scriptural standpoint, I would agree with Jason on Shakespeare. And any other fine art. Some music and visual arts feel profoundly beautiful - is that divine inspiration? I dunno. To me anything painfully lovely - Chopin, moving rock lyrics, literature - reflects the glory of the creator and honors the human who produces the thing of beauty.
Long answer. Too wordy, I know. I’ll come back on the question regarding my use of the Bible.
Comment by: Claudia
7 01/28/08 7:42 AM | Comment Link |Wow. What a completely unexpected and extraordinarily impressive answer! (That’s snark-free, I promise.)
Or the political support. (That’s less so.)
Answer’s still shorter than the original question! Thanks for taking time out to ponder/answer–I know you guys are busy with the actual project. Congratulations on the talk going so well!
Comment by: David H
8 01/28/08 11:43 AM | Comment Link |I get a touch of spiritual truth from many things. The other day I referenced a passage from a Tony Hillerman book. The spiritual concept he presented in his novel was about the Navajo concept of Harmony. It struck me at the time and still does as something true and useful. Does that make any of it divinely inspired (the actual religious concept, Hillerman’s use of it, or my appropriation)? I guess I don’t think much about that any more. Even if it is, how could I be sure without the voice from heaven saying: “This is my concept in whom (or which) I am well pleased.” I have learned to try and accept truth and inspiration where I can find it, even if I am not altogether happy with the source or the content.
When I ran in fundie Christian circles I caught a lot of flack for listening to non-Christian musicians. I tried to explain that much of fascination with certain songs had to do with the sense of searching they evoked. But many of the songs didn’t lead to a finding; quite a few didn’t even seem to be looking for the thing I was told every one should find. Yet that didn’t change the impact of the song. The writer’s were clearly seeking something outside themselves, they were looking for meaning if nothing more. I don’t know if they were inspired or if that was the call of God or any such. But I found useful truth and personal inspiration in what they wrote.
Perhaps that doesn’t speak to the over-arching question: How does God speak through the Bible or other books. But I’m pretty sure I don’t trust many of the Christians I knew when younger to be able to answer honestly on this question. As for myself, I am more concerned with listening to anything that “speaks” to me. If God could do it through a rock, a burning bush, or a donkey, then he can certainly do it through a Springsteen song or Hillerman book.
Should the Bible have more authority than any other thing? Maybe. But there is so much noise around that source that I have a harder time than ever getting a clear signal.