Posted by Helen on: 01.28.2008 /
Amy sent me this the other day:
I want to suggest a topic for discussion: the way atheists are portrayed in the media. After seeing “The Bucket List” (which I really did like) I’m getting tired of movies portraying atheists as rude, callous people. The same thing happened in “This Christmas”. The only non-Christian in the family was the drug dealing, distant son. “Dogma” treats unbelievers like they’re stupid. Not all nonbelievers are like that.
I liked all three of these movies, but I would like to see a movie that includes a NICE atheist every now and then.
That’s my opinion. I’d love to hear what others think.
I’d love to also. As well as commenting on atheists in movies, feel free to comment on other types of movie stereotyping too.
I’m guessing it’s not just atheists who have opinions about how they’re portrayed in movies.
Comment by: Craig
1It seems that “nice” people in movies don’t always make for interesting characters…I guess as a writer (not than I’m one), if you’re going to risk adding a character who could potentially be controversial (whether it be an atheist character or a christian character for that matter) you might as well dramatize the character a bit and get the most bang for your buck.
The christian’s solution to this problem in the past: make your own movies! That way, you can have stereotypically happy characters (with no problems) to show the world what a great way of life yours is:->
Comment by: karen
2I just saw There Will Be Blood last night, and an atheist/Christian conflict is central to the story. Man, that atheist is an evil bastard! He makes Dr. House look like an angel of mercy.
In my experience, atheists are either not represented in entertainment at all; or when they are, they are portrayed as either evil and hateful (as in the movie I mentioned) or anti-social, lonely and “mad at god” (which means they’re not really atheists in the first place, they’re just rebellious believers).
Usually by the end of the story, the atheist has either self-destructed or come around to “see the light” or at least question their assumptions thanks to some “miracle” that happens.
I would love to see a wider range of atheist characters closer to the people I know in real life.
Comment by: Craig
3That’s kinda funny, I saw The Bucket List this past weekend and also saw There Will Be Blood a few weeks back and (until now) never thought of those characters as being atheists.
Karen & Amy - What differentiates an atheist from your typical “rebellious believer”? Is it just non-belief?
for me (as a believer), when someone says something (positive or negative) about god I guess that triggers something inside me that says “hey, this person must believe in god”. But on the flip side, the triggers seem to be much more specific…someone needs to say “I’m an atheist” or “I don’t believe in god” in order for me to associate atheism with that person.
Comment by: Amy Black
4Craig,
It’s a very common misconception that atheists are just rebellious believers. Being an atheist is a seperate issue from being angry at god or the church.
When I saw the bucket list, the scene when the two guys are on the private plane discussing the existence of god, I was pretty sure Jack Nicholson’s character said he didn’t believe in god.
btw I absolutely love your comment about Christian movies, as I’ve had to sit through quite a few of them. Christian culture often unfairly stereotype both Christians and atheists (everything goes right for the happy, well-adjusted Christian and the atheist is angry and rude). and that leaves Christians having to prove that they really are normal human beings with regular problems and the atheists having to prove that they’re not the anti-Christ. Double whammy!
Comment by: Craig
5Amy- yeah, I can definitely see how stereotypes of atheists in movies set you up for needing to prove you’re not anti-christ (coupled with the fact that a lot of christians would unfairly interpret your un-belief as protagonistic). Unfortunately us believers don’t always handle difference all that well. I’m trying to change:->
The plane scene in Bucket List definitely stood out to me. It was clearly there to address the afterlife issue. After the scene closed, I can remember thinking with a sigh of relief “that was justifiable”. I guess I can buy the fact that two guys might be having those kinds of conversations if they knew they were dying. And I was relieved (from a believer pov) that the conversation was fairly respectful of each other and Freeman’s character wasn’t pushy.
Comment by: pamhogeweide
6i’ve never liked how christians are portrayed in films when they are, on occasion portrayed. ugh. hollywood writers seem to miss the mark a lot about real life christians, and atheists from what you guys are saying, though i can’t think of any movies i’ve seen recently that poorly portrayed an atheist.
though i did see jesus camp, a documentary, and um, well, i have to admit it pretty much pegged a large segment of charismatic evanglicalism. Right on target. Fair and square.
Comment by: karen
7I don’t doubt you, Craig, but it’s hard to believe given how central Plainview’s atheism is to the story. It certainly fuels the two pivotal scenes (one in the middle and the other at the end).
Maybe there’s some mechanism where atheists kind of “hide in plain sight” for viewers who aren’t attuned to the issue.
Comment by: Jason Horton
8Atheists are typically portrayed not as unbelievers but as God-haters. I’m specifically thinking of The Reaping. There have been several times in my life where I have wished that I believed so that I could hate and blame an indifferent God for my pain. In the end though I think it’s better to face it. I can’t think of a film where religion has been a factor where an atheist has been portrayed well.
I do think that the TV series Bones portrays atheists pretty fairly though. I haven’t seen every episode but the few I have seen to simple portray atheism as a skeptical character trait rather than in full baby eating horror. I am waiting for the inevitable religious crisis where a character “discovers God” and is made whole again though.
Comment by: Craig
9I saw Plainview as someone who didn’t buy into the whole god thing, but for some reason not as being an “atheist”. Not sure why. I’d like to think that it’s because I try not to use labels, but it’s probably more likely because subtleties (or in some cases not so subtleties) often get lost with me:-> That doesn’t bother me as much as the idea that these subconsciously learned stereotypes could affect my views towards real people.
Comment by: Stephan
10I suggest you stop looking to movies to give clear and accurate portrayals of anyone. Nobody wants to go to a movie to see normal people. If they wanted that they would go to the supermarket. They go to see the extremes, to see something outside of normal experience. Stereotypes accomplish that, and Hollywood execs are smart enough to know what sells. Nice people behaving nicely? Nope. Jerks yelling at each other? Yeah, I’ll take some of that, please.
Comment by: Helen
11Thanks for your comments, everyone.
Karen and Jason, I appreciate you pointing out that people who are ‘mad at God’ are rebellious believers in God, not atheists.
Craig I think you nailed it - that’s my concern too, that movie stereotypes could be subconsciously learned and affect how we view real people. Which means they do matter.
Comment by: Jim Henderson
12It may be hard to believe but not only do many conservative Cs still believe the media portrays them this way - it was this perception that was popularized to drive the Moral Majority to form and “stand up” for Cs rights. Thus leading 30 years later to our current political situation. I reccomend that atheists skip this 30 year project and just go out and serve people - that is a cheaper and faster way of challenging popular perception and one I hope Cs pick up on over the next 30 years as well. Maybe we could work together or if not at least compete to see who can be kinder
Comment by: Julie Clawson
13I don’t think it’s justified, but it seems that most movies have to make use of stereotypes. We don’t have time to get to know the character fully, so they use common stereotypes to help us download preconceived ideas. I have noticed the angry atheist stereotype in movies as well as the more common “I’m an atheist so therefore I must be a scientist.” And yes I’ve met people in real life who fit both of those stereotypes (angry not meaning angry at God, but angry that Christians exist), but I also don’t believe in the shallow Hollywood conception of the world. I know that say the movie portray of Christians can be true of some christians, but it by no means portrays us all. I am glad that some stereotype ploys are disappearing, but it is too common of a ‘literary device’ to give up altogether. It just hurts all the more to see part of who you are portrayed in such ways.
Comment by: David Dickerson
14My own suspicion is that atheists are portrayed in movies as rather hard-edged. So a tough action hero type will occasionally say he doesn’t believe in God, but this is designed to underscore his deep outsider-y cynicism in the system. It’s a sign that he needs whatever redemption (reconciling with his wife, saving the kidnapped nun or whatever) that the movie provides when things aren’t exploding.
At the same time, the Christians that evangelicals are clearly most likely to identify with are almost always idiots of one sort or another: The pastor who won’t let people dance, the sneering hypocrite who torments the young idealistic jazz musician, the nuns who need Whoopi Goldberg to lighten them the hell up.
I think, in short, the message of the movies is that likable people are religious, but not pushy about it. Anything too far in either direction is wrong, and for a very simple reason: it might impact ticket sales.
Comment by: Helen
15Thanks for your comment Julie.
It makes sense to me that they’d do that - but I feel like in doing so they are capitalizing on the ‘worst’ side of me - the side that latches onto stereotypes instead of looking deeper.
David, thanks for stopping by. As you say I’m sure it’s about money.
Comment by: Katie
16Everyone is stereotyped in movies, everyone. Look around and realize that many movies negatively stereotype Christians or the church. Just a few examples: V for Vendetta, The Mist and many others. I can only conclude that, as a believer or atheist, one tends to take more notice of negative portrayals of those who appear to believe similarly. The reality is that any belief can be fashioned as anti-social or scary when in the hands of a Hollywood writer. Really, most people are decent; trying to make sense of their time here on earth.
Comment by: Helen
17Katie, thanks for your comment.
I expect you’re right that we pay attention to negative stereotypes of people who believe like us.