It’s really not very different from my own stance as an agnostic (weak) atheist. However, I choose deliberately to use the “A” word as a means of “neutralizing” a term that has an automatically negative connotation amongst the Christian groups I used to be part of. I figure if people meet normal, friendly, moral atheists that helps remove the stigma from the word.
Do you find that adding “almost” before atheist enables you to overcome some of the automatic negativity that you might otherwise encounter when you’re interacting with Christians (as you do far more often than I)? In my former church, if someone said they were “almost an atheist” they would be like a witnessing magnet, i.e. Christians would be very eager to talk to them, rather than writing them off immediately as immoral or hopelessly in rebellion against god. ;-)
Also, I wonder if you’d considered the word “agnostic” to apply to yourself, although again that tends to shut off conversation in that people might assume you have no opinion and therefore no interest in the topic.
Karen I admire you (and other atheists) for doing your best to dismantle stereotypes of atheists.
I like meeting people and learning about them and it’s easier if I don’t encourage them to focus on how I am different from them (with or without the ‘almost’). So often I don’t push the point I’m ‘almost an atheist’ and Christians talk with me as if I’m a Christian.
But I do like it best when I’ve got to a point where it comes up and they’ve been ok with the revelation (maybe after asking a couple of questions). So we can get back to talking about other things and that hurdle is crossed.
I don’t know if the ‘almost’ makes a difference in how people regard me. It does seem to attract attention and cause people to ask me why it’s there. Which I prefer to them simply assuming they know what my label means. If they ask then I get a chance to explain.
In other words, the curiosity of people about the label has encouraged me to keep using it more than anything else.
I can imagine what you say is true, that in some Christian circles anything which indicates uncertainty might be seen as an opportunity by Christians to move the person towards their beliefs.
Agnostic probably fits because “I don’t know” is definitely true of me. Sometimes people say “it sounds like you’re agnostic” and I agree. Although it seems like people often think “agnostic” implies I haven’t thought about where I’m at or I have vague Christian beliefs, which doesn’t really fit.
It’s weird because when I talk with Christians who are friendly I don’t feel different from them, but they (some of them) probably do feel different from me. Since when I was a Christian I felt different from people who weren’t Christians like me.
I’ll never forget the UU minister who grew up Assemblies of God then moved away said in a meeting I was at a few years ago: “I want to go up to conservative Christians and say “I’m still one of you!!”
That seemed really sad to me. I know how he feels - I suppose that’s why I don’t push the point of what I am with Christians. Because if I don’t they act like I’m one of them. If I do some of them at least become unable to do that anymore.
Having said that, I know lots of Christians now who act like I’m ‘one of them’ anyway - or, maybe more accurately, they like me so I’m in the ‘friend’ category and it’s not a huge relational problem that I’m almost an atheist. Mostly they aren’t conservative Christians but a few of them are. I appreciate them staying friends.
Maybe what I am really saying is, I’m too much of a coward/people-pleaser to ever be much good at redeeming the image of atheists (just as I was never much good at evangelizing because I didn’t like to admit I believed things I knew they’d think were crazy…that’s not how I feel now but focusing on difference is too relationally awkward for me, maybe…)
As it is the anniversary of Thomas Jefferson’s birth today have you ever considered deism. Jefferson believed in a creator deity and in divine providence but thought that much of the supernatural was nonsense. If you hold to the existence of a god but not in a personal God (note the capitals) your religious views may well bee closer to deism than to atheism. You don’t have to subscribe to providence to be a believer.
Of course I don’t. I believe that the existence of a god as creator or caretaker of the universe is not required for there to be a universe. I’m agnostic in that I cannot possibly know everything and there is always a chance that there might be a club of gods sitting just outside the known universe having a right old laugh at humanity. I’m atheist because I don’t think that it is very likely, in fact it is so unlikely that I can discount it as irrelevant.
In other words, the curiosity of people about the label has encouraged me to keep using it more than anything else.
Yes, I can imagine it’s a good conversation starter! :-)
Although it seems like people often think “agnostic” implies I haven’t thought about where I’m at or I have vague Christian beliefs, which doesn’t really fit.
Yes. I have the same reaction to “agnostic.” I think it gives the impression that I either don’t care much about these questions (not true!) or that I’m fence-sitting and unable or unwilling to draw any conclusions at all (also not true).
Maybe what I am really saying is, I’m too much of a coward/people-pleaser to ever be much good at redeeming the image of atheists (just as I was never much good at evangelizing because I didn’t like to admit I believed things I knew they’d think were crazy…that’s not how I feel now but focusing on difference is too relationally awkward for me, maybe…)
Helen, I can never imagine thinking of you as a coward. The way you get up and tell your story at Christian conferences and on panel discussions and the like? NO way!! That’s so brave.
Actually, in my circles I don’t have to be very brave at all when saying I’m an atheist. I suppose I would have to be very brave if I lived in a highly religious area, or still had a lot of fundy friends.
In my everyday life I almost never get asked about my religious beliefs, and when I am “I’m an atheist” is a perfectly acceptable response. It doesn’t even raise an eyebrow these days in L.A.
In my everyday life I almost never get asked about my religious beliefs, and when I am “I’m an atheist” is a perfectly acceptable response. It doesn’t even raise an eyebrow these days in L.A.
that is encouraging to read, Karen. My sister has joined a skeptics society in NYC and enjoys that, although she still won’t let herself be photographed with the group - its a “meetup group” trying to build a community so they have a blog they post pics on. She handles some Christian publicity and she fears it would be bad for her career to be “out”.
I admire anyone who has thought about how they want to live their life and spent some time examining the beliefs they were raised with. And anyone bold enough to be “out” when their beliefs/lifestyle run counter to prevailing culture really has my respect. My mom was like that. I’m not quite bold enough yet…but I’m growing every day :)
On Monday night I was out with five Christian guys (actually some of them like Jim might say they’re followers of Jesus but not Christians).
Since Jim was there and he loves to be provocative he made jokes about me being almost an atheist. At the time I wasn’t sure how I felt about him bringing it up, but afterwards I realized I was glad he did, because it got the issue out in the open in a fun way.
Julie Marie, I’m thinking some people are in for a surprise when you get bold enough :)
Comment by: karen
1Thanks, Helen. That is a good explanation.
It’s really not very different from my own stance as an agnostic (weak) atheist. However, I choose deliberately to use the “A” word as a means of “neutralizing” a term that has an automatically negative connotation amongst the Christian groups I used to be part of. I figure if people meet normal, friendly, moral atheists that helps remove the stigma from the word.
Do you find that adding “almost” before atheist enables you to overcome some of the automatic negativity that you might otherwise encounter when you’re interacting with Christians (as you do far more often than I)? In my former church, if someone said they were “almost an atheist” they would be like a witnessing magnet, i.e. Christians would be very eager to talk to them, rather than writing them off immediately as immoral or hopelessly in rebellion against god. ;-)
Also, I wonder if you’d considered the word “agnostic” to apply to yourself, although again that tends to shut off conversation in that people might assume you have no opinion and therefore no interest in the topic.
Comment by: Helen
2Karen I admire you (and other atheists) for doing your best to dismantle stereotypes of atheists.
I like meeting people and learning about them and it’s easier if I don’t encourage them to focus on how I am different from them (with or without the ‘almost’). So often I don’t push the point I’m ‘almost an atheist’ and Christians talk with me as if I’m a Christian.
But I do like it best when I’ve got to a point where it comes up and they’ve been ok with the revelation (maybe after asking a couple of questions). So we can get back to talking about other things and that hurdle is crossed.
I don’t know if the ‘almost’ makes a difference in how people regard me. It does seem to attract attention and cause people to ask me why it’s there. Which I prefer to them simply assuming they know what my label means. If they ask then I get a chance to explain.
In other words, the curiosity of people about the label has encouraged me to keep using it more than anything else.
I can imagine what you say is true, that in some Christian circles anything which indicates uncertainty might be seen as an opportunity by Christians to move the person towards their beliefs.
Agnostic probably fits because “I don’t know” is definitely true of me. Sometimes people say “it sounds like you’re agnostic” and I agree. Although it seems like people often think “agnostic” implies I haven’t thought about where I’m at or I have vague Christian beliefs, which doesn’t really fit.
It’s weird because when I talk with Christians who are friendly I don’t feel different from them, but they (some of them) probably do feel different from me. Since when I was a Christian I felt different from people who weren’t Christians like me.
I’ll never forget the UU minister who grew up Assemblies of God then moved away said in a meeting I was at a few years ago: “I want to go up to conservative Christians and say “I’m still one of you!!”
That seemed really sad to me. I know how he feels - I suppose that’s why I don’t push the point of what I am with Christians. Because if I don’t they act like I’m one of them. If I do some of them at least become unable to do that anymore.
Having said that, I know lots of Christians now who act like I’m ‘one of them’ anyway - or, maybe more accurately, they like me so I’m in the ‘friend’ category and it’s not a huge relational problem that I’m almost an atheist. Mostly they aren’t conservative Christians but a few of them are. I appreciate them staying friends.
Maybe what I am really saying is, I’m too much of a coward/people-pleaser to ever be much good at redeeming the image of atheists (just as I was never much good at evangelizing because I didn’t like to admit I believed things I knew they’d think were crazy…that’s not how I feel now but focusing on difference is too relationally awkward for me, maybe…)
Comment by: Jason Horton
3As it is the anniversary of Thomas Jefferson’s birth today have you ever considered deism. Jefferson believed in a creator deity and in divine providence but thought that much of the supernatural was nonsense. If you hold to the existence of a god but not in a personal God (note the capitals) your religious views may well bee closer to deism than to atheism. You don’t have to subscribe to providence to be a believer.
Of course I don’t. I believe that the existence of a god as creator or caretaker of the universe is not required for there to be a universe. I’m agnostic in that I cannot possibly know everything and there is always a chance that there might be a club of gods sitting just outside the known universe having a right old laugh at humanity. I’m atheist because I don’t think that it is very likely, in fact it is so unlikely that I can discount it as irrelevant.
Comment by: karen
4Yes, I can imagine it’s a good conversation starter! :-)
Yes. I have the same reaction to “agnostic.” I think it gives the impression that I either don’t care much about these questions (not true!) or that I’m fence-sitting and unable or unwilling to draw any conclusions at all (also not true).
Helen, I can never imagine thinking of you as a coward. The way you get up and tell your story at Christian conferences and on panel discussions and the like? NO way!! That’s so brave.
Actually, in my circles I don’t have to be very brave at all when saying I’m an atheist. I suppose I would have to be very brave if I lived in a highly religious area, or still had a lot of fundy friends.
In my everyday life I almost never get asked about my religious beliefs, and when I am “I’m an atheist” is a perfectly acceptable response. It doesn’t even raise an eyebrow these days in L.A.
Comment by: Julie Marie
5that is encouraging to read, Karen. My sister has joined a skeptics society in NYC and enjoys that, although she still won’t let herself be photographed with the group - its a “meetup group” trying to build a community so they have a blog they post pics on. She handles some Christian publicity and she fears it would be bad for her career to be “out”.
I admire anyone who has thought about how they want to live their life and spent some time examining the beliefs they were raised with. And anyone bold enough to be “out” when their beliefs/lifestyle run counter to prevailing culture really has my respect. My mom was like that. I’m not quite bold enough yet…but I’m growing every day :)
Comment by: Joe
6I was going to say I’m agnostic simply because I don’t have the faith to believe that there ISN’T a g/God.
Thanks to Jason’s comment though the shoes I’m wearing are just that bit more comfortable now :)
I can change the web site title, but what about the domain name?
Comment by: karen
7I don’t blame her. That could be career suicide - or at least a loss of those clients. And in this economy, no one can afford to lose business!
Comment by: Jason Horton
8@Joe, :)
Comment by: Helen
9I second Jason’s comment :)
Thanks for your comments, Karen.
On Monday night I was out with five Christian guys (actually some of them like Jim might say they’re followers of Jesus but not Christians).
Since Jim was there and he loves to be provocative he made jokes about me being almost an atheist. At the time I wasn’t sure how I felt about him bringing it up, but afterwards I realized I was glad he did, because it got the issue out in the open in a fun way.
Julie Marie, I’m thinking some people are in for a surprise when you get bold enough :)
Comment by: Unorthodoxology
10Seems like “almost atheist” is more “christian” than most brands of Christianity. Ironic.