Posted by Helen on: 10.06.2008 /
We were at a classical concert recently with lots of quiet parts in the music. We were somewhat distracted by a regular soft clicking sound several seats away from us.
I talked to the manager about it afterwards. As I expected we were not the only people to notice the sound. The manager said it’s a sensitive situation because it’s a lady’s oxygen tank. She said next time the lady will turn it down to the lowest setting so it goes less often and they’ll ‘try to muffle the sound’.
It’s hard to know how much difference these measures will make. I think the manager said they already did try to muffle the sound but it didn’t work very well. She also said we could ask to change seats. But the sound carried a long way so I’m not sure how far we’d have to move to not hear it. And that won’t help all the other people in the vicinity.
This concert hall has rules like, no children under eight are allowed to attend. I’m sure that’s because they think young children might be noisy. Yet in the case of this one lady they are letting her continue to attend even though it’s already established that the noise of her equipment has disturbed other people. Without being sure that it won’t happen again. Is it fair that one person gets to attend who affects the concert experience negatively for several others?
Comment by: Leo
1 10/6/08 7:00 AM | Comment Link |Seriously?
Comment by: Helen
2 10/6/08 7:37 AM | Comment Link |Seriously I was disturbed by the noise or seriously they are continuing to let the lady attend even though her oxygen tank makes a noise that disturbs others?
Comment by: Leo
3 10/7/08 2:33 PM | Comment Link |Sorry - been pulled away for last couple of days.
Seriously - do you advocate that those who have disabling medical conditions be denied attendence at public events?
I am sorry you were disturbed by the hissing of the O2 tank. Bad on the venue for not providing another area this person could sit in and enjoy the concert. But seriously - do you equate the mediacl needs of someone with the noise a child might make? I am sure the person would have silenced the tank if it were possible…but it is not (well…guess it is - turn it off and not have the assistance).
Guess this hits pretty hard for me - recently, an elder member of our congregation quit attending. I was obviously concerned, went to his house, and talked to he and his wife. They were shy, and did not want to reveil what had happened…but eventually, it came out. He uses a constant flow tank - one that does not hiss, but provides a steady flow - and someone had, just in earshot (which I quesiton, because he is hard of hearing…so this “someone” must have been pretty loud) said his tank disturbed her throughout the service. My response to the church was not very pastor-like…the following Sunday, I was less than gracious with the congregation…unloaded on them for attitudes that do not mirror Christ, attitudes that do not reflect His teachings, etc. Funny thing is…the ‘hissing” the lady was complaining about - is the cycling of the fan on the stand-by amp for our sound system - the main amp recently blew, forcing us to use this standby amp. So much for my sermons - guess people were more concerned about the environment, rather than the messages.
Final result - no change. The gentlemen attends a different church, the one who spoke up has not changed…and the amp still cycles with its fan.
So…in the perfect world, there would be no coughing, sneezing, hissing O2 tanks, shuffling feet, crying babies, etc. However, this is not a perfect world, nor is it approaching one.
Miss Helen, I am sorry you were disturbed during the concert. But I ask you to see the other person’s point of view. Perhaps this is the only event left that provides some releif to someone whose health prevents other pleasures. Maybe the music eases pain and suffering for them. Maybe they are just rude…who knows. But, do we advocate rules that prevent health-compromised individuals from enjoying life because it might bother others? Wow - that sounded harsh, which I don’t mean to be. However, we cannot become a society where we deny people access to what little beauty there is in this world simply because they might bother someone. I wonder - by any chance did you approach this person to chat with them about their condition or situation, and offer to help? Given what I have read on your post, I would guess you probably did. I hope your next concert experience will be better.
Comment by: Bob
4 10/7/08 4:08 PM | Comment Link |Interesting story Leo — One inconsiderate comment has been the undoer of many a church attender. Sometimes people are looking for an excuse to move and if one finds them they make take it up. Other times it’s just the wrong thing at the wrong time and you lose someone. I wouldn’t be hard on yourself, you did what you could to make it right.
Helen, I understand your frustration but in this case perhaps they simply couldn’t otherwise attend and hoped they wouldn’t be a nuisance. You were gracious to let them enjoy the concert, albeit at a little expense of enjoyment for yourself. Maybe it really helped the spirits of the person on the oxygen, maybe it was one of the last concerts they’ll see. Who knows? I imagine they were feeling somewhat self conscious anyway. My pet peeve is when people hum or sing along to the music, or foot tapping. It disrespects the artist and the audience. Unless of course audience participation is encouraged.
How are you feeling? Have things leveled out or is it still blechh? I hope you’re feeling much better.
Comment by: Helen
5 10/7/08 6:31 PM | Comment Link |Leo wrote:
No - I thought I added a final line to my post but I guess not - I meant to add, I think it’s wonderful that encourage and help people with health problems or disabilities to attend, as long as they and their equipment are able to not distract other concert goers
A concert is not like church. The only purpose of the concert is to provide an excellent listening experience and the people who go are paying for that experience. It’s not about the ‘community of attenders’ even though some people may choose to go with friends. IF they do they are supposed to be quiet during the event and socialize before or afterwards.
During the concert I didn’t know who or what was making the noise and even if I had I couldn’t have got up during the concert without being a disturbance myself. And even if I had I wouldn’t have felt it was appropriate for me to interact with that individual. I found out a few days later when I spoke with the house manager.
I don’t relate to their point of view which seems to be that it’s ok for them to disturb lots of other people so that they can be at the concert. If I wasn’t able to be quiet I wouldn’t go and inflict disturbance on others. So I can’t relate.
There’s lots of beauty that can be experienced without needing to be quiet to experience it. All of that is available to people with medical equipment that makes noises.
The decision to allow someone with medical equipment that makes a noise to attend concerts is making that person more important than all the others who are disturbed by the noise. I don’t think that’s right. I also think that if you’re selling a particular experience you should provide that experience. No-one said to us “by the way if you sit there you’ll hear a clicking noise throughout the concert”.
That might well be the case, however they are going to continue attending even though their equipment was a disturbance.
I should post an update. I’m feeling significantly better than the week I was in the hospital and the week after. But I’m still dealing with Crohn’s symptoms. Thanks for asking.
Comment by: seekingsomething
6 10/8/08 3:39 AM | Comment Link |I think this is a really interesting topic.
My first instinct on reading this was to draw a sharp breath at what seems like a very hard line to take against another human being who happens to need an oxygen tank in order to live.
I think it would be really worrying if we were to start to ban others from public events because their abilities or disabilities were inconvenient to others. It would be worrying that they can’t get out and enjoy the things I can… it would be worrying for me that I would only interact in a sterile world with people like me.
I can see your point about this specific instance and I have often left theatres grumbling at the noises/behaviours of others. But I’m not sure that I have the ‘right’ to expect other people to stay home so that they don’t inconvenience me.
If we were to take this line, where would it end… Who would decide where to draw the line? Who would decide what is fair and/or not fair in any given case?
The world is full of people with different needs and abilities and there would be all sorts of categories of folk who might cause annoyance to somebody. People with hearing aids can often cause disturbance too if they themselves are unable to recognise ‘feedback’ noise that can disturb others in the theatre. People with allergies can cause irritation by making sniffing noises that they may not be aware of. People with different emotional responses than mine.. who easily ‘lose themselves’ in performances can make muttering or humming noises that drive me wild on occasions…. For me (a shortie at 5′ 4″) it is devastating to find myself sat in a seat behind a very tall person which means that my view of the stage is compromised… but what’s there to do about it? Make tall people identify themselves at the booking office and sit them all together in the back row? ;)
For me, part of the experience of going to the theatre is being in a large auditorium of other people who are there to appreciate the same thing. I like the fact that there are other people whose hair stands on end and who get goosebumps at the same things I do. I like that we laugh at the same jokes and clap wildly with the same appreciation. That’s what I don’t get at home. And for that reason it’s worth taking the risk that I might end up sat next to someone who annoys me occasionally.
From a ‘British’ perspective, here in the UK, the Arts are heavily supported by public funding and so most theatres are subject to laws around Disability Discrimination. So from that perspective I should think that a person with disability has just a much right in law to see a performance as a non-disabled person and the theatre would need to make reasonable adjustments to enable any prospective theatre-goer to be able to attend.
Usually though, there are creative ways to resolve issues like this without having to uphold any one individual’s rights over another. Wheelchair users are usually offered spaces at particular areas in the auditorium that don’t compromise anyone’s safety. Perhaps the oxygen-tank user be offered a private box from where the sound would be less audible from the stalls? I don’t know but often, these things are easier to sort out in practice than we imagine.
Comment by: Helen
7 10/8/08 6:28 AM | Comment Link |But I think you do have the right to get what you paid for, which in this instance is a performance free from equipment that has proven to disturb people in past performances.
Also, do people with health problems have the right to cause several other people to get less than they paid for?
A number of the comments are encouraging healthy people to be considerate towards people with health problems. I agree with that but doesn’t it work both ways? Are people with health problems exempt from considering others? I just got an email from someone today who said they aren’t attending a concert because they have a cough. Is it completely unreasonable to think that someone with noise-making medical equipment might consider not attending out of consideration for others?
I think this is a great idea. The house manager didn’t say anything about moving the person with the oxygen tank, though. She only said we could ask to move if we were really bothered by it. Which is definitely upholding that one person’s rights over all the people disturbed by the noise of her equipment. Seating availability is limited at this point and most of the people disturbed would only have the option to move to worse seats since they are currently in some of the best seating sections.
If I had medical equipment that made a noise I’d be realistic about it and not try to go places where being quiet was really important unless I had to be there.
Comment by: seekingsomething
8 10/8/08 4:01 PM | Comment Link |I don’t know what the political situation is like in the US as compared to the UK but I would guess that over here, especially given the recent legislation about rights for disabled people, and in view of the fact that the Arts are heavily subsidised by public funding, any theatre manager would probably be very nervous about putting limitations on a disabled person’s access to an event - and sometimes anxiety over doing the ‘right’ thing can get in the way of finding creative solutions to problems. Offering premium seating in a box at a reduced rate for someone with access problems might well overcome this sort of problem (I hope in the US you use the term ‘box’ in the same way as we do to mean premium private seating and not anything constricted or constrained!!)
As a further offering, I would observe that, coming as you do, from a talented musical family, your idea of ‘what you pay for’ at the theatre might be different to other people’s idea and this might help explain why you would be more annoyed by the oxygen tank issue than others?
As I said earlier, part of what I think I pay for at the theatre is a shared viewing/listening experience (rather than a particularly high quality one). What turns me on about live performances is the spontanaiety and the reaction of others in the audience. And because of this I expect that I have to accept the others in the audience, warts and all. I can see that from your perspective what you in particular want out of a performance is an exceptional individual listening experience and so others with noisy equipment or whatever may well compromise your experience more than the same people would compromise mine.
Comment by: Helen
9 10/9/08 4:44 AM | Comment Link |ss, thanks for being understanding.
I think the concert I was at did aim to provide a high quality listening experience. I’m not sure if their hands are tied by funding sources. My sense is that they are overly afraid of getting labelled as discriminatory if they don’t try to accommodate this person, to the point that they’re losing sight of the big picture.
Anyway this week I wrote to the person who creates the particular series I was attending, who I happen to know personally. He said he was concerned too and would take it up with his manager who ‘feels strongly about these things’; he also said that my letter would be helpful to her.
I think there needs to be a way to address these issues without being labelled ‘mean’ just because they involve people with health problems. I have health problems myself and they do limit what I do. That’s life. It’s what people with health problems need to accept. Maybe we can hope for consideration but I don’t think we have the right to participate in things which our health problems make us unable to appropriately participate in.