Depends on the core belief, for example, I believe that “the sense perceptions give us a relatively accurate depiction of the world around us.” If this was discovered to be untrue (although, this is the interesting thing about this fundamental assumption of the scientific epistemology, it fails to be falsifiable!) it would cause me to rethink just about everything, kind of a ‘Neo comes out of the Matrix’ kind of experience.
(the question was asked by Meg Wheatley at a gathering in Cincinnati)
When I think about this question, the immediate belief that comes to mind is my believe in Jesus as the Son of God. If I discovered today that He wasn’t – I would still chose to follow his teachings. My life is richer for His example. And I can’t think of a better role model. (Pascal’s Wager type thing)
If I approach the question from a value I hold – the most recent values I’ve been wrestling with are my value of transparency and space for dissent. These are 2 core values I now look for in any organization or company I am going to work/volunteer for. I believe very strongly that these 2 must be present for healthy community/business/organization/marriage, etc.
What would that mean to me if either one was not necessary for relationships to be healthy?
If transparency was not required (then certainly dissent would not be allowed), would that mean that hidden information, lies, or secrets would still promote health for the person, relationship, or organization? How could that be? My experience has been that where ever I have been that information is hidden, withheld – the organization/relationship is dysfunctional.
If it were proven to me that transparency is not required, it would really rock my world…I think. Just thinking about that possibility is very uncomfortable for me – I can feel myself resisting it.
When I have been in relationships/work environments where transparency and dissent are not allowed – I wither, I become very rebellious, angry, and frustrated. I leave.
I retreat for awhile. I ponder, assess, re-assess, and try to figure out if any part of the core belief still holds truth for me ~ and if so, in what circumstance.
When core beliefs unravel, there’s a season of uncertainty. I’ve learned to be comfortable with ambiguity. I have learned to move through the pain of change without thrashing about and making things worse.
When I was a conservative evangelical, one of my favorite verses was “be still and know that I am God.” I still like that one. Although I am capable of swift, decisive action ~ my first response is generally to reflect.
If I turn out to be wrong about something I hold as true, that’s okay with me. Sometimes the harsh reality of a situation or a belief is too much to take in all at once. Nibbling at the edges of it makes it easier to digest. Truth is truth ~ and if it takes me awhile to get to it, well, I am doing the best I can.
Julie Marie, I like your last line: “I am doing the best I can”. That’s basically what I take refuge in.
When I moved away from being a conservative evangelical I stopped doing things I was doing only because I had been told they were right and I was accepting what I’d been told. From then on I only did things which seemed right to me, as best I could tell.
Now, if my beliefs turn out to be wrong, at least I know I’m doing the best I can based on my own judgment, discernment and abilities. Rather than accepting and following the advice of others which, deep down, didn’t really make sense to me.
I don’t worry about whether my core beliefs turn out to be wrong, except the ones by which I’m raising my children. I hope I’m not ruining their lives. I’m glad I’m no longer raising them in a conservative church, at least.
I don’t worry about whether my core beliefs turn out to be wrong, except the ones by which I’m raising my children. I hope I’m not ruining their lives. I’m glad I’m no longer raising them in a conservative church, at least.
I’d have to agree…if my beliefs turned out to be wrong and adversely affected Cody, that would be a very hard thing for me to live with. I don’t think that the value of honesty, hard work, critical thinking and kindness will ever be proven “false.”
I’ll need to teach him about balance and boundaries so he can be prepared for people who do not operate from the same starting place as he does. And I do think that I am better at balance and boundaries now than when I was a conservative evangelical.
I also agree about space for dissent. Its so hard to listen to people who do not agree with me – but I learned the value of it two years ago, when listening to the “other side” helped me remove some world-class blinders. Thats another thing I want to teach Cody to value – the opposing viewpoint.
Lately a part of my universe broke down, and it really hurt. I think the most important thing we can do is to be completely honest with ourselves and our children. So at least they saw somebody handle a situation as this. Our three children knew why we were sad, that it had nothing to do with them and that we were trying to handle it. It was difficult for us to explain the whole process of mourning, finding new ways and trying to change just at the time when it hurt the most. But it was worth while, we are now a much closer family (our children are 9, 7 and 4 years old). Now we can say that we can count on our children, even when storms are raging!
How wonderful and exciting. To have my beliefs so challenged that I am forced to change them. Isn’t that what dreams are made of?
Of course, I’d need to check. I’d need to know that there hadn’t been a mistake. Then I’d need some time to explore the ramifications of my change of perspective. If X is no longer true then is Y still true? Does Z rely on X or Y and what does that mean.
If it all checked out I think it would be great. Almost like another chance to see the world through a child’s eyes where everything is new and fresh. I wonder if the world seems like that to a born again Christian?
Gecko – I think that is very powerful that you were able to be authentic with your children about your feelings surrounding the person/thing/idea/belief you were mourning.
So much better than pretending in front of them…as if children can’t see through that. It is huge that they knew what was going on instead of thinking it was something they did or didn’t do. That grown-ups have sad times too AND can process through them.
Yes, Jason, that’s exactly how it felt when I was born again. The sky was bluer, the grass was greener, … but then other Christians came with rules, structures, policies. Everything was “proven” with Bible-verses and it sounded so good. We invested our lives and felt really good about it. Until it didn’t work anymore and we crashed. It hurt. Everything was to be questioned anew and consequences to be taken. We hurt people, people hurt us, until we found a new setting that was o.k. with us. And from all we lived only Jesus Christ as Savior was left. I’m so glad that Jesus had healed my hip before all this happened, otherwise I think I would have left everything. And then something real good happened. We noticed that Jesus had not left and HE gave us a new vision (our project http://www.gods-promises.net), for the first time we had real parents in the faith and we got new and interesting neighbors who don’t care to what church we go to. It seems now that the moment we were forced to be completely honest with ourselves and with God HE came in and solved our main problems. And all of a sudden the sky is bluer and the grass is greener again. And of course, when we went celebrating our “new life” the children were part of that, too. The oldest told me in the end that he enjoyed being a part of our family, that he liked being involved and taking responsability.
I think that being honest is the most important thing. I don’t think that children will ever think bad of their parents because they were honest. And it’s important to let them be honest, too. Probably they’ll come to different solutions, but I’ll always love and respect them.
I’m sort of experiencing something like this right now. My sister and I have finally verbalized something to one another that we have long known – our father is racist. Both my parents said for months they weren’t going to vote; the night before the election I had a dream my father snuck out and voted (my mother no longer drives).
I emailed this to my sister and she replied that both parents HAD voted. I knew my father would not resist voting AGAINST an African-American. I had to finally admit, yes, my father is racist. To have my sister, who is my father’s favorite, admit this also, was earth shaking. We are both dealing with the shame of this acknowledgement, and the sort of crushing of your leftover childhood view of your parent as not flawed to this level.
So, my core belief that my dad is a wonderful person is no longer my core belief. I can no longer see him as a wonderful person who happens to be a racist. It doesn’t go together.
It’s pretty hypothetical — some things can’t be proven beyond a shadow of doubt because we can’t go back in time to the beginning to find out. To find out there are no reasoning, intentional, causal beings/forces in the universe would be pretty hard for me. The thought of us being strictly accidental and the only self aware intelligence in the universe is pretty disturbing to me. I think my immediate reaction would be depression followed by an evaluation of my purpose and goals for this life.
Think about how people reacted when they read the DaVinci code, and it was just a work of fiction. I saw people posting stuff, like “Oh — My entire faith is a sham, I can’t believe this has been perpetrated.” Doesn’t any body read the preface or do research? If a work of fiction can so easily derail our faith maybe we don’t have much faith to start with.
I think we constantly need to examine our beliefs and continue to grow, even if that’s painful sometimes. If our world gets rocked we still have to go on and find the beauty and good things about being here.
Doreen — I’m sorry that experience with your Dad was so unsettling. Everyone has shortcomings and things to be ashamed of. You can still love the wonderful things about your Dad and accept but not condone his shortcomings. That’s kind of what we have to do with everyone. We just don’t expect to have to do it with the people we’ve put on a pedestal. Maybe our mistake is putting them there in the first place. I hope that doesn’t sound uncompassionate. My point is that there is still good stuff too, so try to enjoy the good and tolerate/encourage change in the bad. Hang in there.
Hi Doreen, I do understand the troubles you’re going through right now. And it’s wise not to take any shortcut through this process, even if it’s tempting and probably hurts less at the moment. But you can only win if you work through it properly and have a new basement for the relationship with your dad.
You see, for me being a racist and being a nice person do go together, let me tell you how. I see every human being as a diamond. Some facettes are sparkling and brilliant, others are raw and need polishing. Others again are blemished and need healing or only cleaning. I’m sure your dad IS a wonderful person with lots of brilliant facettes. Your common history cannot be changed. So now you have discovered a side of him that doesn’t sparkle. First – you’re NOT responsable for this. And probably you cannot help help him either. Second – if it strains your relationship so much that it’s going to brake, you’ll suffer just as much as him, and it’s not even your fault. Third – if you can love him even though he’s a racist, that DOES NOT mean you are a racist, too. It just means you love your dad – because he’s your dad.
Perhaps these thoughts are a bit early, because you have to do a bit of digesting first, but sure my advice to any person is not to act to fast, first sleep over it a few times and try to find out what is the most important for you. However, I’m glad to read that this facette (not being a racist) sparkles and shines in your diamond!
Doreen, I’m sorry about you having to deal with your Dad being a racist. As you pointed out, it’s hard to have your core beliefs changed.
Presumably he’s racist because he has some erroneous core beliefs about African-Americans. Sometimes people have these types of core beliefs out of fear or ignorance more than because they are mean people.
It is sad to come to the conclusion that another person probably is incorrigible.
On the other hand, at times I have thought it was fine to have fools for friends, although I don’t know that I would seek them out.
Comment by: no offense
1Depends on the core belief, for example, I believe that “the sense perceptions give us a relatively accurate depiction of the world around us.” If this was discovered to be untrue (although, this is the interesting thing about this fundamental assumption of the scientific epistemology, it fails to be falsifiable!) it would cause me to rethink just about everything, kind of a ‘Neo comes out of the Matrix’ kind of experience.
Comment by: Elaine
2(the question was asked by Meg Wheatley at a gathering in Cincinnati)
When I think about this question, the immediate belief that comes to mind is my believe in Jesus as the Son of God. If I discovered today that He wasn’t – I would still chose to follow his teachings. My life is richer for His example. And I can’t think of a better role model. (Pascal’s Wager type thing)
If I approach the question from a value I hold – the most recent values I’ve been wrestling with are my value of transparency and space for dissent. These are 2 core values I now look for in any organization or company I am going to work/volunteer for. I believe very strongly that these 2 must be present for healthy community/business/organization/marriage, etc.
What would that mean to me if either one was not necessary for relationships to be healthy?
If transparency was not required (then certainly dissent would not be allowed), would that mean that hidden information, lies, or secrets would still promote health for the person, relationship, or organization? How could that be? My experience has been that where ever I have been that information is hidden, withheld – the organization/relationship is dysfunctional.
If it were proven to me that transparency is not required, it would really rock my world…I think. Just thinking about that possibility is very uncomfortable for me – I can feel myself resisting it.
When I have been in relationships/work environments where transparency and dissent are not allowed – I wither, I become very rebellious, angry, and frustrated. I leave.
Comment by: Julie Marie
3I retreat for awhile. I ponder, assess, re-assess, and try to figure out if any part of the core belief still holds truth for me ~ and if so, in what circumstance.
When core beliefs unravel, there’s a season of uncertainty. I’ve learned to be comfortable with ambiguity. I have learned to move through the pain of change without thrashing about and making things worse.
When I was a conservative evangelical, one of my favorite verses was “be still and know that I am God.” I still like that one. Although I am capable of swift, decisive action ~ my first response is generally to reflect.
If I turn out to be wrong about something I hold as true, that’s okay with me. Sometimes the harsh reality of a situation or a belief is too much to take in all at once. Nibbling at the edges of it makes it easier to digest. Truth is truth ~ and if it takes me awhile to get to it, well, I am doing the best I can.
Comment by: Helen
4Julie Marie, I like your last line: “I am doing the best I can”. That’s basically what I take refuge in.
When I moved away from being a conservative evangelical I stopped doing things I was doing only because I had been told they were right and I was accepting what I’d been told. From then on I only did things which seemed right to me, as best I could tell.
Now, if my beliefs turn out to be wrong, at least I know I’m doing the best I can based on my own judgment, discernment and abilities. Rather than accepting and following the advice of others which, deep down, didn’t really make sense to me.
I don’t worry about whether my core beliefs turn out to be wrong, except the ones by which I’m raising my children. I hope I’m not ruining their lives. I’m glad I’m no longer raising them in a conservative church, at least.
Space for dissent is important to me too, Elaine.
Comment by: Julie Marie
5I’d have to agree…if my beliefs turned out to be wrong and adversely affected Cody, that would be a very hard thing for me to live with. I don’t think that the value of honesty, hard work, critical thinking and kindness will ever be proven “false.”
I’ll need to teach him about balance and boundaries so he can be prepared for people who do not operate from the same starting place as he does. And I do think that I am better at balance and boundaries now than when I was a conservative evangelical.
I also agree about space for dissent. Its so hard to listen to people who do not agree with me – but I learned the value of it two years ago, when listening to the “other side” helped me remove some world-class blinders. Thats another thing I want to teach Cody to value – the opposing viewpoint.
Comment by: gecko
6Lately a part of my universe broke down, and it really hurt. I think the most important thing we can do is to be completely honest with ourselves and our children. So at least they saw somebody handle a situation as this. Our three children knew why we were sad, that it had nothing to do with them and that we were trying to handle it. It was difficult for us to explain the whole process of mourning, finding new ways and trying to change just at the time when it hurt the most. But it was worth while, we are now a much closer family (our children are 9, 7 and 4 years old). Now we can say that we can count on our children, even when storms are raging!
Comment by: Jason Horton
7How wonderful and exciting. To have my beliefs so challenged that I am forced to change them. Isn’t that what dreams are made of?
Of course, I’d need to check. I’d need to know that there hadn’t been a mistake. Then I’d need some time to explore the ramifications of my change of perspective. If X is no longer true then is Y still true? Does Z rely on X or Y and what does that mean.
If it all checked out I think it would be great. Almost like another chance to see the world through a child’s eyes where everything is new and fresh. I wonder if the world seems like that to a born again Christian?
Comment by: Elaine
8Gecko – I think that is very powerful that you were able to be authentic with your children about your feelings surrounding the person/thing/idea/belief you were mourning.
So much better than pretending in front of them…as if children can’t see through that. It is huge that they knew what was going on instead of thinking it was something they did or didn’t do. That grown-ups have sad times too AND can process through them.
thanks for sharing.
Comment by: gecko
9Yes, Jason, that’s exactly how it felt when I was born again. The sky was bluer, the grass was greener, … but then other Christians came with rules, structures, policies. Everything was “proven” with Bible-verses and it sounded so good. We invested our lives and felt really good about it. Until it didn’t work anymore and we crashed. It hurt. Everything was to be questioned anew and consequences to be taken. We hurt people, people hurt us, until we found a new setting that was o.k. with us. And from all we lived only Jesus Christ as Savior was left. I’m so glad that Jesus had healed my hip before all this happened, otherwise I think I would have left everything. And then something real good happened. We noticed that Jesus had not left and HE gave us a new vision (our project http://www.gods-promises.net), for the first time we had real parents in the faith and we got new and interesting neighbors who don’t care to what church we go to. It seems now that the moment we were forced to be completely honest with ourselves and with God HE came in and solved our main problems. And all of a sudden the sky is bluer and the grass is greener again. And of course, when we went celebrating our “new life” the children were part of that, too. The oldest told me in the end that he enjoyed being a part of our family, that he liked being involved and taking responsability.
I think that being honest is the most important thing. I don’t think that children will ever think bad of their parents because they were honest. And it’s important to let them be honest, too. Probably they’ll come to different solutions, but I’ll always love and respect them.
Comment by: Doreen
10I’m sort of experiencing something like this right now. My sister and I have finally verbalized something to one another that we have long known – our father is racist. Both my parents said for months they weren’t going to vote; the night before the election I had a dream my father snuck out and voted (my mother no longer drives).
I emailed this to my sister and she replied that both parents HAD voted. I knew my father would not resist voting AGAINST an African-American. I had to finally admit, yes, my father is racist. To have my sister, who is my father’s favorite, admit this also, was earth shaking. We are both dealing with the shame of this acknowledgement, and the sort of crushing of your leftover childhood view of your parent as not flawed to this level.
So, my core belief that my dad is a wonderful person is no longer my core belief. I can no longer see him as a wonderful person who happens to be a racist. It doesn’t go together.
Comment by: Bob
11It’s pretty hypothetical — some things can’t be proven beyond a shadow of doubt because we can’t go back in time to the beginning to find out. To find out there are no reasoning, intentional, causal beings/forces in the universe would be pretty hard for me. The thought of us being strictly accidental and the only self aware intelligence in the universe is pretty disturbing to me. I think my immediate reaction would be depression followed by an evaluation of my purpose and goals for this life.
Think about how people reacted when they read the DaVinci code, and it was just a work of fiction. I saw people posting stuff, like “Oh — My entire faith is a sham, I can’t believe this has been perpetrated.” Doesn’t any body read the preface or do research? If a work of fiction can so easily derail our faith maybe we don’t have much faith to start with.
I think we constantly need to examine our beliefs and continue to grow, even if that’s painful sometimes. If our world gets rocked we still have to go on and find the beauty and good things about being here.
Doreen — I’m sorry that experience with your Dad was so unsettling. Everyone has shortcomings and things to be ashamed of. You can still love the wonderful things about your Dad and accept but not condone his shortcomings. That’s kind of what we have to do with everyone. We just don’t expect to have to do it with the people we’ve put on a pedestal. Maybe our mistake is putting them there in the first place. I hope that doesn’t sound uncompassionate. My point is that there is still good stuff too, so try to enjoy the good and tolerate/encourage change in the bad. Hang in there.
Comment by: gecko
12Hi Doreen, I do understand the troubles you’re going through right now. And it’s wise not to take any shortcut through this process, even if it’s tempting and probably hurts less at the moment. But you can only win if you work through it properly and have a new basement for the relationship with your dad.
You see, for me being a racist and being a nice person do go together, let me tell you how. I see every human being as a diamond. Some facettes are sparkling and brilliant, others are raw and need polishing. Others again are blemished and need healing or only cleaning. I’m sure your dad IS a wonderful person with lots of brilliant facettes. Your common history cannot be changed. So now you have discovered a side of him that doesn’t sparkle. First – you’re NOT responsable for this. And probably you cannot help help him either. Second – if it strains your relationship so much that it’s going to brake, you’ll suffer just as much as him, and it’s not even your fault. Third – if you can love him even though he’s a racist, that DOES NOT mean you are a racist, too. It just means you love your dad – because he’s your dad.
Perhaps these thoughts are a bit early, because you have to do a bit of digesting first, but sure my advice to any person is not to act to fast, first sleep over it a few times and try to find out what is the most important for you. However, I’m glad to read that this facette (not being a racist) sparkles and shines in your diamond!
Comment by: Helen
13Doreen, I’m sorry about you having to deal with your Dad being a racist. As you pointed out, it’s hard to have your core beliefs changed.
Presumably he’s racist because he has some erroneous core beliefs about African-Americans. Sometimes people have these types of core beliefs out of fear or ignorance more than because they are mean people.
Comment by: martin gugino
14It is sad to come to the conclusion that another person probably is incorrigible.
On the other hand, at times I have thought it was fine to have fools for friends, although I don’t know that I would seek them out.