Posted by Helen on: 12.18.2008 /
Eliza emailed me a link to the CBN announcement that Obama has chosen Rick Warren to give the invocation at his inauguration.
Apparently Obama defended that choice today in a press conference today.
What do you think? Is having Rick Warren give the invocation a positive step of reaching across the aisle? Or should Obama have chosen someone more ‘progressive’?
Comment by: Irritable
1Well, I’d have picked Peter Laarman, but that probably wouldn’t have played well in Peoria. Brian McLaren would’ve been a nice choice. I’m not happy with Warren but I think BO was probably screwed no matter what the choice.
Reaching across the aisle, pandering, whatever.
Comment by: Bob
2I don’t know, I’ve developed a distaste for for mega church pastors turned media media darlings (not everyone’s darling obviously) I think he’s an intelligent man and has some good insights but he seems to be slipping into Deepak Chopra “guru” territory with all his media appearances.
I understand why Obama may have picked him, he’s working that all things to all people angle. I enjoy McLaren’s writings too, but he’s far to radical for the bulk of the right. Seems like a safe and calculated pick.
Comment by: Randy
3I generally suspect all politicians of pandering, and think that questioning their motivation is justified…no matter who the politician is. However, I like the POSSIBILITY that O is wanting to bring a lot of opposing voices to the table, even if in token ways (which the invocation really is, folks…it’s not that big a deal). This willingness to listen to and respect those who differ from him and his party is what made me vote for him, frankly. Whether or not this ends up being something more noble than politicking, we’ll see.
But I like the pick. It may seem “safe” to the more conservative crowd, but it’s a risky pick if you’re from the more liberal team. Apparently gays and lesbians feel totally dissed by this. And that feels like politicking to me as well.
Comment by: marion
4Rick Warren is a progressive ['read' compromising...in their eyes], evangelical in the eyes of many conservatives….
.because of his, and his wife Kay’s, practical concern to support AIDS victims and the victims of Katrina [much practical support given there by the Saddleback churches that he and others oversee]….
and also his message about fighting poverty
and the fact he keeps 10% and gives away 90% etc
you have only got to go to a Christian forum that has many conservative evangelicals on and see the mocking and ridicule and criticism of him, which is what alerted me to the fact he must have something good to say…
[even though I've never read Purpose Driven Life].
see http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-waldman/in-defense-of-rick-warren_b_151878.html
the rights that homosexual people want is not the only major issue that needs attention in these days…and Obama rightly cares, along with Rick and his wife and others, about the loss of human life through AIDS and other diseases and poverty.
Comment by: Doreen
5I’m furious at this choice. Rick Warren has compared gay and lesbian relationships to beastiality and pedophilia. This is not the type of reaching out that is helpful. This demonizing of gays and lesbians only makes it acceptable in some people’s minds to see us and treat us as less than human. You know there’s a problem when his first line of defense is “Some of my best friends are gay.”
Comment by: Martin Gugino
6Doreen – I can understand that you are upset about having someone who opposed Prop 8 speak at the inauguration. I want to walk you back from your frustration, if I can. First although Rick said “some of my best friends are gay”, he would not say, “Some of my best friends are into beastiality”, or pedophilia, or adultery. Or threesomes. I don’t think.
Treating people as ‘less than human’ is THE sign of a problem developing. Even here we do have some current examples: the vegetable people, and beyond that, the vegetable people that it is illegal to water.
Comment by: Helen
7Doreen, when people with Rick Warren’s views say “Some of my best friends are gay” I wonder whether those ‘best friends’ also regard Rick Warren as one of their best friends?
Comment by: Martin Gugino
8Re: closet Marxists
in Marion‘s Huffington Post link
We don’t believe in class warfare anymore?
Comment by: benjdm
9I thought this was an inauguration, not a church service. An invocation? A benediction? What the heck?
Comment by: Doreen
10It’s gotten worse. Now Warren claims he never compared gay and lesbian relationships to pedophilia or incest (although MSNBC showed the videotape of him doing just that). Further, if you are a gay or lesbian protesting his inauguration participation, you are Christ-ophobic (he posted this Sun. night in a video on his website). He apparently doesn’t have any gay or lesbian Christian friends among his gay friends.
Comment by: Martin Gugino
11I would have liked to hear Chris Hedges. I know he wrote a book called American Fascists. But if you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Or give ten people three minutes each. See what is on their mind.
2. Cardinal Mahoney of LA
3. Any muslim you’d like to hear?
Comment by: Peter Walker
12I have some conflicting thoughts about it (which is easy, safe, and comfortable for me as a heterosexual). So I want to first-off acknowledge and affirm the frustration many of my friends from the gay community are feeling over this recent announcement.
When I first heard the announcement, my initial response was: “Smart. Very smart. He’s reaching out to the Evangelical base and showing them he cares and can relate to them.” Then I thought, “Hmmm… Warren is pretty conservative, I wonder if that’s going to piss anyone off.” Then I thought, “You know, he is awfully progressive when it comes to AIDS and HIV issues, and Global Warming, maybe it will be ok…” and then I remembered: “Oh yeah, he was pretty much in favor of Proposition 8.” And then I thought: “This is going to be a shit storm.”
And so it goes.
I caught myself saying to Jen (my wife) when I first heard the news, “Well, he’s conservative, but if conservative Christians in general were more like Rick Warren, there wouldn’t be much of a problem with the American Christian Culture Wars of the past few decades.” And Jen raised her eyebrows at me, which generally means: I might be wrong. And I was. Because supporting politics like Prop. 8, legislating morality, in my opinion, IS engaging in Culture Wars; the last thing the Christian church should be doing. Christianity was not meant to be a religion aligned with political (or military, for that matter) power. Forgive me for saying this: I have little personal interest in trying to change people’s opinions about issues like homosexuality – I believe there will always be faithful Christians on both sides of that fence, who can be faithful on both sides of that fence. But I have a HUGE interest in changing people’s opinions about how they should treat others. Missional Christianity is about the active outworking of the Kingdom of God. That is not a kingdom of rules, bullet-point-legality, or socio-political attacks – it is a Kindom of love, of justice, of freedom, of transcendence, good fruit and good news!
On one hand, I think Obama’s pick was politically daring and even savvy. Perhaps he can prove himself to some of the naysayers calling him a “Secret Muslim.” But do those paranoid folks DESERVE to be placated?
I also think Obama’s pick is an important reflection of his own character: Obama doesn’t see the world in black-and-white, and he is tirelessly committed to building bridges and finding common ground. I can always get behind that!
But I do understand why my gay friends are hurt by this move. And so I am wounded with them. Warren’s political stance on homosexuality (apart from his theological stance, which could be manifested much differently) is inappropriate for a so-called “progressive,” 21st Century evangelical who claims to care about human rights.
Let James Dobson and Pat Robertson fight their culture wars. I wish Warren had emerged as a clear alternative for conservative-leaning Christians, looking for a kinder way.
Instead, this is becoming the wrong kind of political fodder, at a time when American needs hope, unity and grace the most.
Comment by: Irritable
13Peter,
Thank you — very much — for your thoughtful, sane and balanced words.
Comment by: Martin Gugino
14Peter
Do you think that human rights are set by God; given to us by God? Or are they negotiated?
The phrase “claims to care” means that he says he cares but he doesn’t, or doesn’t really, doesn’t it? To say that, don’t you need to be able to read his mind, to know what he cares about?
And is gay marriage one of the human rights? Was it one from the beginning? Or was it added? Recently? Does Rick know?
huh? Is this a “resist not evil” kind of thought? I know you don’t mean collaborate with the dominant culture.
Comment by: benjdm
15Rick Warren is also a creationist. So add the scientifically literate to the groups he annoys.
Comment by: Martin Gugino
16re: young (and tiny) universe
Do the young-earthers think that the universe is like those old movies where the couple is driving in a car, and Paris, seen through the rear window, is only projection on a screen? That is, we see photons coming out of the night sky, and it looks like there is a universe out there, but the photons didn’t come from any hydrogen atoms, because if they had, they wouldn’t be here yet, since it would take billions of years for them to get from there to here. Actually, why bother creating stars at all – just do the photons.
What is one to make of the star of Bethlehem?